Idler arms

[bertvorgon]

As the castor goes up...steering to turn gets harder...at low speeds...as the castor literally lifts one side of the car up.

The high speed stability as the castor goes up is amazing, should one spend a lot of time at higher speeds.

More castor induces negative camber also, which is good for front tire bite.

[Chadsinto510s]

As the castor goes up...steering to turn gets harder...at low speeds...as the castor literally lifts one side of the car up.

The high speed stability as the castor goes up is amazing, should one spend a lot of time at higher speeds.

More castor induces negative camber also, which is good for front tire bite.

Yep. I get all of that. It doesn't always come out in what I say though. Sorry. I'm curious if it's a known issue with urethane bushings (in the LCA's) wearing out faster due to the misalignment caused by yanking on the lower control arm to get said castor? Someone told me that years ago and I remembered it when doing the alignment. Hence I figured I was safe with the max allowable from the factory spec. I can make it whatever I want really but to what detriment for the LCA bushings?

[bertvorgon]

I get it too, yes there is a point of load that you do not want to get too for sure.

Forgot you do not have plates and rod ends.

[Chadsinto510s]

I get it too, yes there is a point of load that you do not want to get too for sure.

Forgot you do not have plates and rod ends.

Yeah, I haven't decided whether rod ends are a great idea on a daily driver that gets driven rain or shine. No boots or seals makes me wonder at the longevity of the rod ends. Do you daily yours? Have you noticed any longevity issues?

I think if I want more castor I'll have to change to camber plates that have a caster offset in them and then coil overs to go with that. I just don't want to yank on the urethane bushings any harder than 2.5deg positive. Not to mention I can see the wheel and tire are no longer centered in the wheel well with even that small amount of castor dialed in. It's minor but it bugs me a bit...

[bertvorgon]

My car is not really an example of a daily driver, although I drove my car to all my race events, car shows, even through some massive rain/snow storms, plus canyon carving ( decades of that) that hit many rain events.

My "rod ends" are not sealed and have been in service since 1983/84. The main ones, T/C rods and the lower control arms are the size and ones that NASCAR used in that time period, over built for my 2,200 lbs 510 but, if they were good for a 3,800 lb car, they would be awesome on the 510. They have lasted. I actually, as my car is in the shop right now, had them checked by the very person that built my suspension..THEY ARE FINE. I made sure they got wiped off after a bad weather event and, lubed them constantly with TRI-FLOW.

Funny you should mention the visual aspect. When we first dialed up my suspension and ran 6 degrees of castor, which of course really pulled the wheel forward, most of my competitors at the time did not understand what lots of castor did on a 510. If anyone happened to make mention my wheel looked forward, I used the excuse that my fender flare had not been trimmed back so the arch was even! You can see in the picture how forward of center the wheel is. That also increased the wheel base which was not a bad thing either.

[iceman510]

I do recall the stories of stock tc rods breaking when used with urethane bushings. I remember Kelvin maybe talking about drilling holes through them to increase flexibility.

If you have installed T3 TC rods, then the structure is quite different. The angle is at the rod end, and the bolt through the bushing should have no angularity, unlike the stock design. I don't see the bushing wear being affected. The load on the bushings should only be compression, and more evenly applied.

[Chadsinto510s]

My car is not really an example of a daily driver, although I drove my car to all my race events, car shows, even through some massive rain/snow storms, plus canyon carving ( decades of that) that hit many rain events.

My "rod ends" are not sealed and have been in service since 1983/84. The main ones, T/C rods and the lower control arms are the size and ones that NASCAR used in that time period, over built for my 2,200 lbs 510 but, if they were good for a 3,800 lb car, they would be awesome on the 510. They have lasted. I actually, as my car is in the shop right now, had them checked by the very person that built my suspension..THEY ARE FINE. I made sure they got wiped off after a bad weather event and, lubed them constantly with TRI-FLOW.

Ok maybe I won't worry about it so much then. I already have 2 rod ends under the car now with the T3 T/C rods. It was just a concern. Any particular TRI-FLOW product you recommend for this?

[Chadsinto510s]

I do recall the stories of stock tc rods breaking when used with urethane bushings. I remember Kelvin maybe talking about drilling holes through them to increase flexibility.

Yeah I had heard that too and drilled mine per Kelvins instructions. They'd been under the car for almost 20 years with no broken TC rods or wiped out bushings or any damage to the TC rod mount on the chassis. Guess it works...

If you have installed T3 TC rods, then the structure is quite different. The angle is at the rod end, and the bolt through the bushing should have no angularity, unlike the stock design. I don't see the bushing wear being affected. The load on the bushings should only be compression, and more evenly applied.

I was more concerned with the lower control arm urethane bushings at this point because I'm yanking on them to gain some castor. More so than anything binding with the T3 TC rods themselves. In fact the T3 TC rods seem to have unbound my suspension some as she now sits slightly lower and I'm thinking I might want a bigger front sway bar as she also seems to lean over more than she ever did. Not a LOT but it's noticeably different.

Still think the idler from Apex is a pretty darn good option for those of us not trying to convert to rack and pinion. Only time will tell about it's longevity though. At least its fully rebuildable. Worth the $200 admission just for that alone.

[bertvorgon]

This is the little drip bottle I use. We have used this product back in our winter riding mountain bike days, where it just really helped with keeping things lubed on the derailleurs, shifter's, cables, etc..

I use it in my throttle cable on the 510, hinges, etc., even a drop occasionally on the carb linkages and bearings.

I think it's water repellent nature is great and it is thicker than say WD-40..

I guess 40 years on the rod ends speaks for itself.

[Chadsinto510s]

I guess 40 years on the rod ends speaks for itself.

Thanks!! I'll look into acquiring a bottle.

Are you really 40years on the same rod ends? That being the case I'll stop worrying about their longevity... lol

Is there a pic of your suspension someplace I can go have a look just because I'm curious?

Thanks again!!

[bertvorgon]

YES...40 years...NO exaggeration!!!

Here are a few pics, not great. Funny, I have never taken clear pics of the suspension per se.

Car is in shop on hoist, so on Friday I will take some good ones, should have them anyhow.

These past 40 years saw 24 years of full on competition on 9.5" wide Goodyear racing slicks, over 17 hillclimbs, street Gran Prix's, and some very aggressive high speed road race days and canyon carving.

I really do not think you have much to worry about if you buy quality road ends.

[Chadsinto510s]

Thanks for those too. Are your rod ends teflon lined?

[iceman510]

I was more concerned with the lower control arm urethane bushings at this point because I'm yanking on them to gain some castor. More so than anything binding with the T3 TC rods themselves.

Gotcha. I was not making that connection. Thanks for the clarification.

[bertvorgon]

Morn'n!

I do not remember if they are lined, been in there so long and I only started keeping a log book in depth after we built the suspension.

here is a good article on rod ends. Pretty sure mine are Aurora:

https://www.aurorabearing.com/pdf/in-rod-we-trust.pdf

[Chadsinto510s]

Thank you sir!