VG33 (Xterra) Swap - 2022

[JonnyCanuck]

To preface, I hope I've done enough research before asking questions that I'm not wasting lots of people's time, but I spent quite a while going through here and ratsun to figure out what people have done that works and does not.

This kind of got started when an Xterra came up for sale not far from me for ~$400 CAD. Complete with some recent front end work, 2nd set of tires, etc... Runs and drives, but the owner stated the rings are blown, so the engine is junk. (I would assume that it is probably either rebuildable as is, or just needs boring out out by +1 piston size, if those exist.) The point here is more that donors for VG33's are becoming pretty common place now, and I've only seen one or two well flogged KA24's near to m in two years of looking. Taking other's lead, I’ve joined the local 180/240sx community to ask around, but haven't gotten far there. In either case, I think the VG33 makes a little more sense for being newer, less likely to have been beat on as badly and at least in Ontario... they exist. We never got KA24 powered Xterras here, and I don't think we ever got the fun KA24-T's either. On a personal level, I’m more inclined towards an engine with good torque and low revs for street driving and windy roads than something that wants to rev to the moon....

Anyway, this is less about my doing a swap any time soon, because I'm probably not, but more like a discussion on the requirements to do it in 2022, and in this case, what might be able to pulled from a running VG33 car and used. Also doing it on a bit of a rat-rod budget, since you can still just buy a SR20, but in my market they’re like $5k, usually JDM and don’t come with and ECM. I reckon even if you pay $1k for a donor car, you should be able to do the whole swap for quite a lot less than that, if you’re willing to do most or all of the work yourself...

Team Thump and Experimental Engineering, often referred to in older posts as the pay-for-convenience way to get motor mounts and exhaust manifolds are long gone, so they’re not longer an option. In my case, I feel pretty confident about being able to make up mounts, tho they would just be solid, and modifying a cross member to suit a VG transmission, but much less so about building headers/exhaust manifolds, tho I’ve got a TIG and am willing to make mistakes along the way. (Anyone out there with any of those pasrts/products willing to take some photos or measurements to help someone get an idea where to start?)

So, I’m sort of trying to compile what would be needed/will work/is even remotely likely to be available today to do this swap...

I am working on the assumption that if you can find an entire donor vehicle, which is fairly reasonable now, in the case of the Xterra, since there are lots in the used market which still run, but are failing for other reasons (body rot, blown out suspension, too much costs to repair vs. buying new etc....) that the entire engine management system can be used as it, at least to run the thing on a stock(ish) tune. This would eliminate a lot of cobbling electrical together, although would also presumably mean some trickery to get any original dash gauges to work properly, if that is even possible. This further assumes you can find a manual ECM, but reading also indicates that the AT units don’t seem too bothered by no having the TCU connected when you swap in an MT. (Seriously, who swap in an auto anyway?) So unless I am really off the mark there, I’d call that an issue which is easy enough to work around.

What seem to be the other big hurdle is intake manifold fitment. The suggestions I’ve seen so far are for a 200sx intake, an 80s Maxima intake and Frontier ‘long runner’ intake being compatible and able fit under the hood. These parts seem to be ones that could be found on ebay perhaps, but at least within a couple hundred kilometers of my location, these vehicles are NLA in scrapyards. I figure they’re just too old and not valuable enough to have been kept at this point, nearly 30 years on, they’d probably have been well picked over by now in the event you could find one anyway. I’ll start looking around for any of those to get a feel for price, but any thoughts are welcome. This is if the reading I’ve done is correct, and the Xterra intake isn’t going to fit.

A final thought on this is the transmission in the Xterra. It’s the same basic case as any other VG trans as far as I’ve been able to suss out, but of course has the transfer case attached at the back instead of the RWD snout. What I haven’t been able to find is what is inside the transfer case, and if it can be directly swapped with a 2WD snout or if that isn’t possible. There are plenty enough transmissions out there, and relatively easily available, but being able to use what comes in one donor vehicle would be great. I have yet to see a 2WD only Xterra come up for sale in my region, and perhaps they were never sold here in Ontario, I don’t know. (I did find an S32 DE-TT transmission close by, which I believe would work and probably have better gear ratios that the truck, but at $700, it doesn’t fit the imaginary budget well.)

Anyway, that’s a little long already, but it is the stuff I’ve been thinking about while waiting to get my hands on the wagon. I do intend to drive the thing as is for a while, or maybe for good, but after modifying my turbo Subaru to ~275 awhp and 260 awtq, I am not sure I’ll be content with what I can get out of the L20B with a 32/36 Weber and a 5 speed. It is getting a head of myself a little, but as mentioned before, it’s more of a though experiment and a reflection using parts that are still able to be found for not a lot of dollars these days, and which will work.

Curious to hear what other think, and especially if the required parts are maybe still easy enough to find in other regions where cars don’t die such nasty deaths from road salt so early.

[datzenmike]

The S32 only came in VG30D and VG30DTT but both used the RS5R30A transmission so plenty strong and will fit the VG33E. Starter appears to be mounted on side of 'bell' housing.

The WD22 Xterra had KA24DE 4 cylinder engines but I don't know of a KA24DET with a turbo or R-supercharger were ever produced by Nissan. There was a VG30ER option with super charger. All offered in 2wd.

The S12 200sx, the same year Maxima and 300zx used the same low profile intake. The early D21 Hardbody with the VG30E intake was probably taller but had longer runners and made the most torque.

[JonnyCanuck]

Sorry, to disambiguate, I meant the KA24-T out of a 240sx, I wasn't clear there. They probably did come to Canada, but I'm not finding anything around here, and I don't think the 510 needs a turbo for my intended use.

Trans would indeed be a from an S32 (link won't last long, I assume...)

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.ht ... 1641255357

I double checked my facts, and you're right, it was behind a VG30DE. From reading, these don't fit our bays without serious modification. And I would prefer not to do any cutting, hence limiting my search to either KA24 or VG33 based parts. (I believe I mixed this up with another similar ad for a VG30TT elsewhere...)

My car has already been manual swapped, so the tunnel would have been cut for a shifter I'll put this in the category of minor, and acceptable modification to the chassis.

"The S12 200sx, the same year Maxima and 300zx used the same low profile intake. The early D21 Hardbody with the VG30E intake was probably taller but had longer runners and made the most torque."

Am I missing something in my reading about flow rates, that these intakes were at least somewhat different internally? Or is it more that for the purposes of an NA/stock engine, any would be sufficient? The long runner from a the Hardbody sounds like it would be the cat's ass, making the most torque. Out of curiousity I'll have a look around and see if I can find a part number or something to look one up by...

[datzenmike]

Old eyes Z looks like an S... or a 5


KA24T???? If the 240sx KA24E or KA24DE was ever factory turboed in Japan, it never came here. I've never even heard a whiff about it.


The D21 Hardbody intake I'm referring to came up from the center line between the heads bent over to the left side and came forward to the throttle body. May be taller than you want. Manifold is 14005-88G00 or 88G10

[JonnyCanuck]

Yup. I'm wrong all over the place. Mixing up my 180SX's with 240SX's and the powerplants they came with.

I lived in Aus breifly and NZ for a couple years as well, so I'm remembering things incorrectly. In my head, a 180/240 are pretty much the same thing, and yes, it is the SR20-T that I am thinking of... No KA24 came turbocharged, although that is inargueably a shame.

Thanks very much for the part number. Tends to make looking for things on the internet a whole lot easier.

I'll do some looking at online inventories and see if anything like a D21 still exists in any scrapyard around here. I wouldn't count on it, but who knows.

In the unlikely long term event I were do any kind of engine swap, I'd want to have everything on hand, or at least know that it is obtainable before removing the fist bolt from a working car. Figure the warnings all over the site about not cutting up a car, or getting bored of a project very good advice, best heeded.

[DADZSUN]

Personally I'd stay far away from the KA. I've got a SOHC and am not impressed with it. They're heavy, inefficient, and their trannies are getting hard to come by. The only real positive I've found is that they have nice torque and fit well in the PL510 .

I'm seriously considering pulling mine out this summer and selling it for a Duratec 2.5 / Miata 5 speed swap. $250-300 long blocks, OEM 170 hp/ftlbs (NA 200 rwhp easy to achieve), 75lbs or so lighter than a KA.

[JonnyCanuck]

Thanks Dadzsun,

Yes. Firmly in the realm of getting ahead of myself, my first thought had been the KA swap, since it is by most accounts the easiest and definitely the best documented here. Once I spent a little more time reading on it, and looking at what is available in Ontario, I decided against it. For some of same reasons you mentioned, as well as the scarcity of potential donor engines at reasonable costs.

The VG33 came as a second best in the original daydream, but the more I read about them, the more I actually think it makes sense. Well documented history of swaps, and at the moment, lots of donor engines available in scrapyards everywhere. Reasonably light by comparison to a L20B, in any case, and plenty enough power and torque for daily driving, especially given the light weight of the chassis. Also, not likely to explode the factory diff in my wagon, which is an entire another ball of wax to upgrade....

I'm curious about the 2.5L Duratec, and will take a look around to see if I can find any swap threads anywhere on that. Suggestions?

Not that I would insist on having a Nissan motor under the hood, but I'd thought that if I were going to go off brand, then perhaps a Honda K24 was a good candidate... Plenty of power, light weight and there are a dozen in every wrecking yard you might go to. On the other hand, the only swap thread I've seen on them here is yet to be completed, and it seems like a lot more fabrication to mate everything up.

[icehouse]

KA24's are great because they are a super simple swap, reliable and used to be a dime a dozen. Not so much anymore. VG's although they sound cool they are a boat anchor and don't go in so easy. You need a kit, including custom headers ect. (Yes we all know the S12 VG units will bolt in if you can find a set). That being said all my Datsun's have SR's. Really even now you can't beat them. Any swap with comparable power will cost just as much. If you search around you can find some better deals on SR's or buy a project.

We are doing a K24 Honda swap in our racecar. It's an amazing engine, super light, ton's and ton's of aftermarket support. Easy to get 200WHP out of a stock engine. The only down side is everything needs to be changed to work in a RWD application. A KA24 swap can be done in a few weekends easy. Honda swap not so much.

I think the cheapest would be a D21 single cam KA swap. Get a 240 pan, flip the crossmember, a 240 intake and roll it. VG would probably be next on affordability. I've done 2 VG swaps into 510's I felt like the KA was more fun to drive stock engine for stock engine. SR would be next then K24 for price.

I've done more motor swaps into 510's then I can count. KA24E with a cheap T3/T4 turbo and a subi LSD would be some fun times.

[JonnyCanuck]

KA24's are great because they are a super simple swap, reliable and used to be a dime a dozen. Not so much anymore. VG's although they sound cool they are a boat anchor and don't go in so easy. You need a kit, including custom headers ect. (Yes we all know the S12 VG units will bolt in if you can find a set). That being said all my Datsun's have SR's. Really even now you can't beat them. Any swap with comparable power will cost just as much. If you search around you can find some better deals on SR's or buy a project.

We are doing a K24 Honda swap in our racecar. It's an amazing engine, super light, ton's and ton's of aftermarket support. Easy to get 200WHP out of a stock engine. The only down side is everything needs to be changed to work in a RWD application. A KA24 swap can be done in a few weekends easy. Honda swap not so much.

I think the cheapest would be a D21 single cam KA swap. Get a 240 pan, flip the crossmember, a 240 intake and roll it. VG would probably be next on affordability. I've done 2 VG swaps into 510's I felt like the KA was more fun to drive stock engine for stock engine. SR would be next then K24 for price.

Since I've not driven either swapped car, and kind of doubt I'll have a chance, not every having come across another 510 in person, much less a swapped one....

How might you describe the difference? By numbers the VG33 is a pretty solid choice. It's only ~100lbs more than the KA (Seems to be generally regarded as a very heavy 4-banger.... But with ~+35-40 hp and ~+60 ftlb torque.

Those seems like a fair trade off? But I'm not discounting what you're saying.

K-series would be cool for a race application, or if the power would ever get used. Since I have a wagon chassis with the live axle, there really aren't any easy ways to upgrade the diff to something that I think is going to be reliable under turbo power levels, probably taking the turbo'd KA24 off the table as well. I am also going to assume a great deal more fabrication to do, and costly parts to adapt it to RWD. I am sure K-Tuned has the stuff to mate it to a RWD trans, and I am sure I could mount/plumb/wire it, but my guess is it would be a 2-year project and a lot of money.

Again, this is kind more in the context of getting an Xterra for $400 CAD. So.... $300 USD.

The trying to suss out what parts are good/not good from that donor, and a total cost, I guess.

At the moment, this is kind of what I speculated would be needed.

- Donor car $400 - Engine, wiring harness... Can probably sell off many other parts and recover the investment easily enough, so potentially all this for $0.

- Intake: Don't care which to get started, they seems to be available for ~$100 USD from other forums.
- headers: S12 v30 (I didn't know these would work...) $$?? There still seem to be people making ones to suit, but they're spendy. $600 USD? I am
reasonably certainly I would TIG something up to fit for a few hundred dollars worth of bends, but that would add some time for sure.
- Can AM box, because I suck at wiring
- Rad, hoses, belts, general overhaul of donor engine... $500?
- Custom Driveshaft $600?
- trans snout to delete transfer case? Available?? $$??

I am really curious to know how much a KA24 goes for in other peoples regions. I've had not luck finding one in Ontario/Quebec that isn't being sold as a long block, +intake if your lucky. And I suspect most of these have lived hard lives, since there really weren't many KA24 cars we got up here that were boring, auto daily drivers.

So maybe I can get lucky and find one. But at the moment, I'm comparing the potentially, sub-$2/2.5K VG33 swap with I suppose $6-7K for a SR20 assuming I can get one from an importer. (The two I know of in the province are out of stock right now....) And at least right now, I can't find a KA locally. (Just spotted one in ALberta for $2800 plus shipping... So. $3K++)

Is the VG33 $5+K less good than a stock Sr20, for a weekend car that will see no track use, and probably just some spirited driving down windy country road?
Is it $3K+ less good than a KA24 for the same application?

[icehouse]

On paper the VG33 may look like the best route but I would take a D21 turbo KA over it all day. The amount of money it takes to get the VG in you could get a D21 KA and 2WD trans and turbo it. The VG just falls off so much in the high RPM's to me that doesn't feel sporty. Feels like a truck. Also you wouldn't catch me building a header unless it bolted a turbo onto my rig let alone 2 of them.... Yuck. I think Dadsun would enjoy his KA also with a turbo slapped to the side of it. The problem is a 200hp 510 into todays world is slow. Even my cars with 300 just aren't enough. All the work do do a motor swap and you don't want it slower than a mini van.



What do I win? You could get a D21 and find a SR bell. S13 ecu and wiring isn't tough to find.

https://jdmofwa.com/product/jdm-1989-19 ... gine-only/

[icehouse]

Personally I'd stay far away from the KA. I've got a SOHC and am not impressed with it. They're heavy, inefficient, and their trannies are getting hard to come by. The only real positive I've found is that they have nice torque and fit well in the PL510 .

I'm seriously considering pulling mine out this summer and selling it for a Duratec 2.5 / Miata 5 speed swap. $250-300 long blocks, OEM 170 hp/ftlbs (NA 200 rwhp easy to achieve), 75lbs or so lighter than a KA.

Weird I loved my 620 with the single cam and the 510's we build with them back in the day. Don't you have like 3.5 gears? You need to turbo it. NA is boring to drive to easy.

I'd rather have the Honda engine than the Ford. The Honda has so much aftermarket support and I mean it's Honda. My sister had a TSX with over 300k on the clock and it still ran perfect.

[JonnyCanuck]

On paper the VG33 may look like the best route but I would take a D21 turbo KA over it all day. The amount of money it takes to get the VG in you could get a D21 KA and 2WD trans and turbo it. The VG just falls off so much in the high RPM's to me that doesn't feel sporty. Feels like a truck. Also you wouldn't catch me building a header unless it bolted a turbo onto my rig let alone 2 of them.... Yuck. I think Dadsun would enjoy his KA also with a turbo slapped to the side of it. The problem is a 200hp 510 into todays world is slow. Even my cars with 300 just aren't enough. All the work do do a motor swap and you don't want it slower than a mini van.



What do I win? You could get a D21 and find a SR bell. S13 ecu and wiring isn't tough to find.

https://jdmofwa.com/product/jdm-1989-19 ... gine-only/

You win my gratitude. Haha! Thanks for that.

You'll note tho, that for the price of that engine alone, not including shipping, customs, and tax, I could most likely get the VG33 in, tuned and have enough left for cams.... And the SR would still need a trans, wiring, fuel system... etc. etc. I feel like my estimate of $5-6K more to do an SR-T install than a VG is probably about right and more likely to fall short of the actual costs than exceed them.

Budget is a *very* big factor in this, so anything with a turbo is pretty much automatically off the table since it's going to run the costs up meaningfully and mean a much higher long term running cost for the car. Of course, that does then lead to considering a NA SR20 perhaps? Even harder to find these days, but if the SR platform is so well loved, and great deal more modern/lighter/rev happy than the other choices, perhaps it becomes a contender as well? Although availability of RWD models is pretty bad, and again price goes to a premium just because it says SR...

[JonnyCanuck]

Personally I'd stay far away from the KA. I've got a SOHC and am not impressed with it. They're heavy, inefficient, and their trannies are getting hard to come by. The only real positive I've found is that they have nice torque and fit well in the PL510 .

I'm seriously considering pulling mine out this summer and selling it for a Duratec 2.5 / Miata 5 speed swap. $250-300 long blocks, OEM 170 hp/ftlbs (NA 200 rwhp easy to achieve), 75lbs or so lighter than a KA.

Well, considering the scope and power levels of some of your other projects, I can see where the KA might not make the cut for you. If you do decide to go down the 2.5 Duratec road, maybe give me a shout when that KA gets pulled. I'm in Ottawa a couple times a year visiting friends, and it's not so far away that I couldn't make a trip up to collect a drive train and meet the rest of the Datsun fleet you have up there.

My suspicion is that any of the well known swaps with "newer" engines will be fine for all intents and purposes. This is more about just modernizing the car a little, and getting away from the L series. Mainly because of parts availability and lack of support at this time. No hate at all on the L, and like I said, maybe I'll just leave well enough alone. But there isn't very much out there for them at this point any longer. Even and "old" KA or VG has piles of parts available on any store shelf right now.... I doubt I can find mains bearing for an L at any speed shop in my area at any price....

[icehouse]

If you value your time at 50 cents an hour I still think the KA is cheaper. .

[DADZSUN]

...

Well, considering the scope and power levels of some of your other projects, I can see where the KA might not make the cut for you. If you do decide to go down the 2.5 Duratec road, maybe give me a shout when that KA gets pulled. I'm in Ottawa a couple times a year visiting friends, and it's not so far away that I couldn't make a trip up to collect a drive train and meet the rest of the Datsun fleet you have up there.

...

Actually my power expectations are quite docile compared to many - even on this board. I've always been a firm believer that 10lbs/crank HP is plenty to have fun and not get into too much trouble. My 635 build will be closer to 10lbs/RWHP but I plan to design a traction control system to keep things civil.

My long-dormant 280z build is getting restarted this spring and somewhat surprisingly (to myself) I plan to keep the L28. There's a million swap options but the fact is that COST is a huge deterrent for me to bother some exotic swap - especially for those of us in Canada. The only reason I'm entertaining Duratec plans for the 510 is that it's a proven swap for Miata NC owners (so the recipe has no surprises) and it's CHEAP!

Give me heads up the next time you're down and you can come by any grab it (KA24e/tranny/exhaust/driveshaft/MS PNP). I'll likely have it out by May.