Looking for another opinion...

Post by **510rob** » 02 Oct 2004 13:45

Sampson,
Take a step back from it, think about what you already have, think about what you want in terms of numbers and be realistic; do you want 200HP, 300HP, 400HP, 500HP? Approach it from that perspective, but be totally realistic because if you are not realistic, you'll end up with something that absolutely sucks to drive on the street. A car of a 510's weight with a honest to God dyno quantifiable 250HP car is a fuggin' FAST car, and you can cause a lot of damage with something like that. A 300HP 510 is crazy, and doesn't really qualify as a street car. A 350HP street car is a contradiction. A 400HP street car is a weapon, and if you caused an accident with a car like that, a half decent lawyer could probably even have the car qualified as a weapon in court!!!

First of all, keep the weight low - that's the key to success. An inline-6 is a heavy motor, a V-6 is lighter. A turbo 4-banger might be lighter, and place the weight further back, and require less hacking, and will make just as much power as the 6 cylinder. The top level Japanese race shops usually take the 2JZ inline-6 out of the Supras and put in the 3SG inline-4 from the MR2 because it is way lighter, can make just as much HP, it's totally reliable, and it lets them put the weight waaaaay further back in the chassis.

Second, displacement is king - motors are air pumps; motors with more displacement move more air so they make more power. A big motor has to be realllllly shitty not to move more air than a small one, and if the small one actually does move more air than the bigger motor, the little buy will be spinning up around 100000000rpm to do it...

Third, availability of parts might not seem like such a concern, until you need that JDM market part that no one has. Years ago I went up to Knox with a friend in his British TVR with the UK-market-only Essex V6 motor; you can't even get a distributor cap for this motor in north america, and guess what - we couldn't get it started, at 7pm on a long weekend friday... Typically, you have to carry your own spares with you every where you go!!! Foreign market motors are neat, but sometimes far from practical... I know a guy with a Toyota 18R-G motor that he can't get cams for - his car's been sitting idle for 8 months because he's waiting for some shop in Japan to make him a set of cams the way the make friggin samauri swords (at their own pace, in their own sweet time!!!)

Fourth, the price of gas is going crazy these days, are you really sure you want to feed a 500HP fire-breathing dragon when 250HP would scare most passengers into next week?!?

Fifth, it's your car and money; freedom of choice must prevails so don't let some twit like me tell you how to do things - do them so they are right for you. End of story.

Sampson · Post by **Sampson** » 02 Oct 2004 17:29

Interesting, thank you for the novel-istic insight, and its actually very helpfully. I only mentioned the rb20 bcuz i might have had a link to picking one up for fairly cheap. Essentially I probably will put a Ka24de or an sr20 into my dime, the thing is I dont have anything to start with, for my car has nothing in it, and when i say nothing, I mean NOTHING. Over the last month I've been trying to accumulate the parts i need, and no its pretty much come down to the power plant.

68Datsun510 · Post by **68Datsun510** » 02 Oct 2004 23:35

your not the only one

Post by **bertvorgon** » 03 Oct 2004 14:13

I agree with Rob, anything over 300 HP will get you into a world of trouble so fast........

Sampson · Post by **Sampson** » 03 Oct 2004 19:29

yeh 300hp isnt my goal, i'm looking for approx 200-250, even 250 is pushing it, like it actually isnt nescessary, but will be much enjoyed

sspikey · Post by **sspikey** » 03 Oct 2004 22:26

coming from being aruond 500+HP cars all day ill say this
HP is never enough
you ALWAYS want more
you always wish you could spin that next gear
you always wonder hwat if a Mclaren F1 pulled up could i keep in front on the highway
its a drug. I swore to myself htis 510 would see no more that the 167WHP it came with. Yeah right SR powered this winter with 240WHP to start off with and within 3 months going with 330WHP. should be fun

Post by **5teN** » 03 Oct 2004 22:28

sspikey wrote:coming from being aruond 500+HP cars all day ill say this
HP is never enough
you ALWAYS want more
you always wish you could spin that next gear
you always wonder hwat if a Mclaren F1 pulled up could i keep in front on the highway
its a drug. I swore to myself htis 510 would see no more that the 167WHP it came with. Yeah right SR powered this winter with 240WHP to start off with and within 3 months going with 330WHP. should be fun

So how about that rear suspension...

Turn7 · Post by **Turn7** » 03 Oct 2004 22:33

So how about that rear suspension...

[/quote]

He'll need to put it in a wagon to keep the u joints from breaking-EH?

sspikey · Post by **sspikey** » 04 Oct 2004 07:39

well see how teh rear driveline fares. Ive been told it has been cryo treated and strenghtened (dont know how true or how much that will even do) but i do plan on getting rid of the U joints and converting to Cv's down the line for sure. 510s are hard to SR lots of extra hidden cost. i would like to down the line widden the rear fenders a bit and stick some 245 but well see how that goes. Hell my 240sx use to spin 265 in 2nd gear like there was no tomorrow but that car ran 124.8MPH traps

I have however learnt one thing with starting the process. DO NOT rush a 510 SR swap there is so much involved its better to take time. If that means this car isnt ready until 2006 summer so be it i guess

Sampson · Post by **Sampson** » 14 Oct 2004 17:09

when are you, or have you started the swap

Post by **bertvorgon** » 14 Oct 2004 19:42

Hey SSpikey, I could not agree more..horsepower is a drug. I have lived it for 30 years. Problem in a 510 is as the power goes up, those OTHER parts start to break. I guess I come at it from the prospective, been there, done that. I want my 510 to survive fast, 8 hour drives and not miss a beat. As Mark Donahue said, " I'll have enough horsepower, when I can spin the tires, in 5th gear, at the END of the straight!" Somebody else was paying his bills!

datsunfreak · Post by **datsunfreak** » 17 Oct 2004 08:45

Sampson wrote: I only mentioned the rb20 bcuz i might have had a link to picking one up for fairly cheap...

A lesson by way of example...

Did a KA24E swap, in my first 510. The cost of the engine ended up being about 1/3 the cost of the total swap.

Doing a VG30E swap in my current 510. The cost of the engine will be about 1/4 the cost of the total swap.

Getting a "deal" on an engine that will cost 2-3 times as much as any other engine to fit is not much of a bargain.

Another example... Doing a Z20E swap for a friend, engine cost is still around 1/4 the total cost, but the total cost will only be about $1000-1200. Decent power, stock EFI, and darn near a bolt-in.

You have said two VERY contradictory things. You have little money to spend and want a lot of HP. Not going to happen...

sspikey · Post by **sspikey** » 17 Oct 2004 09:36

bertvorgon wrote:Hey SSpikey, I could not agree more..horsepower is a drug. I have lived it for 30 years. Problem in a 510 is as the power goes up, those OTHER parts start to break. I guess I come at it from the prospective, been there, done that. I want my 510 to survive fast, 8 hour drives and not miss a beat. As Mark Donahue said, " I'll have enough horsepower, when I can spin the tires, in 5th gear, at the END of the straight!" Somebody else was paying his bills!

So give me an idea of what other things break

Im guessing rear A arms i have heard snap when you give them too much HP
Driveline (rear diff and U joints are a BIG nono i can see

)

what else?

datsunfreak · Post by **datsunfreak** » 18 Oct 2004 17:30

sspikey wrote:So give me an idea of what other things break
Im guessing rear A arms i have heard snap when you give them too much HP
Driveline (rear diff and U joints are a BIG nono i can see )

Under 300hp, I think you only have to worry about the u-joints in the driveshaft and half-shafts. New ones will be just fine, unless you drag-race every weekend. Diff will likely only break if it was weak/tired to start with, or once again if you drag race every weekend.

Keep one thing in mind, Horsepower itself does not brake parts, driveline shock does. Avoid those 5000rpm clutch dumps and you'll likely be fine.

Sampson · Post by **Sampson** » 18 Oct 2004 22:18

no I "would" like alot of horsepower, but have little money to spend, but I figure it will just never end. I mean can anyone else just settle for what they have, i dont think so.