Nissan EI Distributor Wierdness

[James]

So - it seems as if you have eliminated the module as a problem (still doesn't explain the change in timing between modules in previous experiences - unless you accidentally modified the situation with some of the internal components each time you changed the module?). With the stator that seemed to correct, was the timing "solid" as you state with the one that set your timing to 5deg. ATCD? Was the miss still there - or did you only notice that when you were under load (as you said you didn't rev that combo?) Very interesting....

[okayfine]

So - it seems as if you have eliminated the module as a problem (still doesn't explain the change in timing between modules in previous experiences - unless you accidentally modified the situation with some of the internal components each time you changed the module?).

Yes, modules seem to be in the clear. Of course, I only tried one of my three spares, however as all three exhibited the same conditions, I didn't bother.

I only changed out the module. At the time I didn't have any spare internal components. The distriubtors in the junkyard I harvested the modules from where both 6-cyl pieces, and the reluctors were rusted to the shafts so I couldn't even use the pickup coils.

With the stator that seemed to correct, was the timing "solid" as you state with the one that set your timing to 5deg. ATCD? Was the miss still there - or did you only notice that when you were under load (as you said you didn't rev that combo?) Very interesting....

A misspeak on my part. As the miss seems to be occuring on #4, with the timing induction clamp hooked to #1, timing appeared "solid." The miss was still there. This miss was not there during the 4km of driving I did on the no-name module. Car ran perfect then.

[510Martinez]

The problem was in that distributor. Like I said earlier you were assuming something worked that was actually the problem.

The stator/reluctor is a magnetic trigger and sometimes you can get an assembly with a weakened field. This is the reason why you use a brass gauge to set the air gap - metal on metal contact can demagnetize it a little.

The correct solution would be to replace the reluctor and pickup assembly and to replace all your plugs. Then re-test.

[James]

I agree that sounds like a good course of action at this point. Although its not satisfying from an explanation of previous issues, as those are not explained by either of these components (timing retard, running perfectly on one of the modules etc.) I still think some of your initial issue may have come from using a module from a 6 cyl., possibly a turbo application? (although why would it work now?) Maybe we'll never know. It doesn't really matter if you can get your car running correctly at this point.

[hang_510]

I still think some of your initial issue may have come from using a module from a 6 cyl., possibly a turbo application? (although why would it work now?)

i dont think there is a diff between a 4 or 6 cyl modules (poss the turbo though???)
doesnt appear to be in the troubleshooting manual either.

its a solid state device triggered by the reluctor signal.

[James]

Yes - I was speaking of the turbo (in theory) as I have read some stuff about rpm dependent timing retard issues with that module....

[okayfine]

The problem was in that distributor. Like I said earlier you were assuming something worked that was actually the problem.

Yes, yes of course it was. The trick was in diagnosing the bad part.

This is, also, neverminding the complete failure of the points guts to produce any spark whatsoever.

The correct solution would be to replace the reluctor and pickup assembly and to replace all your plugs. Then re-test.

Replace it with what? I have replaced all the parts with Jason's known-good parts. I now have a miss where I did not have a miss before. Plugs are brand new, no miles on 'em.

[okayfine]

I still think some of your initial issue may have come from using a module from a 6 cyl., possibly a turbo application?

Except the car ran (and ran great) using the two-plug module. And didn't run with the Nissan OE modules. The modules should be interchangable, but only the two-plugger made everything right.

Now, of course, I can swap Nissan modules with no new issues, and the only things changed to get the ignition to this point are a stator and reluctor.

One for Ripley's, I guess.

[510Martinez]

I wasn't clear based on your post if you changed all the plugs. I understood you to have changed only 1. If you still have a miss, you can do the cylinder drop test and see if one makes little or no difference when you pull the wire. If that's the case, you try a different plug wire, check the dist cap, and if those aren't the culprit you check cylinder pressure.

As for the retard issue, since the reluctor triggers the module, it is quite possible the faster it went the less it was triggering the module, creating an appearance of retarded timing (which was instead non-triggering).

[James]

I still think some of your initial issue may have come from using a module from a 6 cyl., possibly a turbo application?

Except the car ran (and ran great) using the two-plug module. And didn't run with the Nissan OE modules. The modules should be interchangable, but only the two-plugger made everything right.

Now, of course, I can swap Nissan modules with no new issues, and the only things changed to get the ignition to this point are a stator and reluctor.

One for Ripley's, I guess.

I know - none of it makes logical sense - I guess I am trying for the possibly unattainable - a simple fix that explains all of the issues. Doubtful it will happen here.
On to the miss on #4

One thing I wonder - is if the stator and reluctor were bad or off in some way all along, (I'm not going to deal with the fact that your car ran great with the no-name module for now), and then you replaced them with J Gray's know parts in your original housing (correct?). Any chance that you have some type of wobble (bad bearing etc) that is causing a very slight misalignment (possibly intermittent) between the stator and reluctor? Is it a constant or intermittent miss?

Just hypothesizing.....

[510Martinez]

There have been so many changes, it is possible some of them developed after the initial problem due to static electricity damage or voltage surge. You can add that to the theories.

[510rob]

Recap.

You modified an SR20 dizzy & an L-series dizzy to make an EI matchbox style dizzy, which we can all agree sounds like a perfectly acceptable approach.

Running the newly created (NC) dizzy with the Nissan 2-plug EI modules produced some unintended timing retard.

The NC dizzy + Aftermarket 1-plug EI module worked, until that module suddenly failed.

With the NC + a Nissan 2-plug EI, you tried inverting the relationship of the trigger leads (which gave timing retard as it should do), but you said the timing was then inconsistent. Seems plausible, and without going into silly details, it proves to me that the polarity of many components is correct (trigger coil polarity vs. rotor polarity vs. direction of rotation).

You tried installing points, and that failed. (which it shouldn't have)

You tried a bunch of various things that have all failed in various unpredictable ways, which is killing all of us.

I'd say go back to the setup that was last known to work - the NC dizzy + Aftermarket 1-plug EI module. Have you tried this setup with an early Nissan 1-plug module?

In my mind, the coil works. The leads work, the plugs are ... are the plugs fouled at all??? You should install some plugs that are 1 or 2 heat ranges hotter than stock while troubleshooting this stuff, to minimize their tendency to foul with improper mixture settings and/or lots of potential idling and cranking, and fuel loading...

Could you post a picture of all your Nissan EI modules, as well as a picture of the short-lived aftermarket module that worked?


Oh yeah, I forgot about the GM module. I suppose that should have worked. Hmmm...

[okayfine]

I'd say go back to the setup that was last known to work - the NC dizzy + Aftermarket 1-plug EI module. Have you tried this setup with an early Nissan 1-plug module?

Rob, all,

The only combo that worked prior to Jason's bits is the NC dizzy and aftermarket 2-plug EI module. This is also the module that fried.

All my remaining modules are Nissan OE 1-plug E12-80 modules. Which work with Jason's bits, but not with the rebuild bits.

In my mind, the coil works. The leads work, the plugs are ... are the plugs fouled at all???

One plug fouled, I replaced all four with new. Will buy hotter plugs.

Could you post a picture of all your Nissan EI modules, as well as a picture of the short-lived aftermarket module that worked?...

Can do.

[okayfine]

One thing I wonder - is if the stator and reluctor were bad or off in some way all along, (I'm not going to deal with the fact that your car ran great with the no-name module for now), and then you replaced them with J Gray's know parts in your original housing (correct?). Any chance that you have some type of wobble (bad bearing etc) that is causing a very slight misalignment (possibly intermittent) between the stator and reluctor? Is it a constant or intermittent miss?

There may be a wobble, but if there is it is not noticable without a dial indicator. There's only a bushing, I believe, in the base of the EI distributor body, and bearings in the advance plate (but not contacting the shaft).

The miss is intermittent, but constant. That is, it doesn't occur with every 4th cylinder firing, but does occur with regularity amongst normal running. bang, bang, bang, bang, miss, bang, bang, miss, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, miss...etc.

[vgwagon]

One thing I wonder - is if the stator and reluctor were bad or off in some way all along, (I'm not going to deal with the fact that your car ran great with the no-name module for now), and then you replaced them with J Gray's know parts in your original housing (correct?). Any chance that you have some type of wobble (bad bearing etc) that is causing a very slight misalignment (possibly intermittent) between the stator and reluctor? Is it a constant or intermittent miss?

There may be a wobble, but if there is it is not noticable without a dial indicator. There's only a bushing, I believe, in the base of the EI distributor body, and bearings in the advance plate (but not contacting the shaft).

The miss is intermittent, but constant. That is, it doesn't occur with every 4th cylinder firing, but does occur with regularity amongst normal running. bang, bang, bang, bang, miss, bang, bang, miss, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, miss...etc.

I would suggest a new cap, as maybe the one you were using is carbon tracked???
I thought I picked up you saying something about the ignition being triggered before the rotor reached the appropriate firing contact inside the cap.....this could cause a carbon track and your slight miss??