Halfway home and stuck won't run! IT LIVES!

[goatee]

Heya all sorry this is so long but I'm trying to give all the details I can think of right off the bat. Im driving home a 73 I picked up off ebay. Not sure how much info you'll want so here it all is and Im gonna post on a few boards cause im STUCK! The motor is recently rebuilt L20B, Weber DGV, 5 speed, new starter belts, hoses internally regulated alternator, gas tank was recently hot tanked etc.

Car was running good but stumbling at idle so we had switched jets at the previous owners suggestion to the next size up at his place. The car started up alright, I drove it around a bit, all fine. It started dying outside of town pulling up to stop lights but I didn't think it was a big deal as the PO (previous owner) thought the carb needing rebuilding. I ramped up the idle some to help out and just kind of dealt with it. Anyway finally after about 80 miles of great sounding cruising on highway or so the engine just cuts out, no sputter, bucking or noise just dies. I pull over and we figure out of gas??? I thought maybe the old tank didn't vent well so when we put gas in it had tricked us into thinking it was full.

Went and got gas, only about 2-3 gallons would fit. Tried starting and it mostly just turns over. It has GREAT spark from all spark plugs (shocked me each time heh heh) and I pulled the hose clear up to the carb and it spits fuel like crazy when you turn it over. I can look in to the bowl and see fuel dump in as well. The plugs were pretty black so it's rich but I changed them and no go. I had cranked it over and over with them out trying to dry it up in case it was just really flooded.

The car turns over and if it starts at all it just lopes something fiece if I give it a little gas. If I give it any more it just dies. I opened back up into the carb and the clip that holds the needle in had fallen off somehow and was in the bowl. I put it all back together but no change. Its hard to hear much as at certain rpms the new exhaust rubs and makes a heck of a racket. Any thoughts?
You can reply or email me at goatee21ATgmail.com

[hang_510]

try replacing the fuel filter...

was there a vacuum when the gas cap was removed?

[Byron510]

If there's fuel and spark....and it's verified – wow now it get ugly.

There are only a couple things left - compression and timing (ignition and cam). Is there compression? With a plug out, and your finger covering the plug hole, crank it a couple times – get ready for a good shot of air that we all hope will be there – if it is.. next:
You say the motor was just rebuilt - Did the ignition timing slip? How is the cam timing? Was the tensioner put in right - or at all (don't laugh, I've seen it). If you have exhausted all other avenues (including verifying ignition timing), then pull the cover, rotate the motor until Cyl#1 cam lobes are pointing at 10 and 2 o’clock. There is a timing mark behind the cam gear. Line up the V on the back side of the cam gear with this mark, and verify that the crank is also at TDC at the same point. This will tell you if the timing chain has skipped. (This check will only work IF the PO put the cam plate on the right way, has used a factory or at least quality replacement cam sprocket -as the cheap aftermarket ones don't have the marks-, and the crank pulley/timing pointer are a matched set and aligned). I hope you don't need to do this check, because it's involved. And please check everything else first!
Good luck on your trip home, I hope you find a simple solution to your problem and get home safely.

Stay in touch here on the realm, send pics and your whole "new car" story. We like 'em!

Byron

[goatee]

Fuel filter seems fine as the car will push gas through it fine and I can suck on it easily enough as well. Bad idea I know at any rate it seems to flow fine. Ill check compression, I haven't done that. My father in law is on the way with a trailer and probably plenty of "I knew you wouldn't make it all the way from denver" comments. I bought this as a fun car to commute a few miles to work each day.
Byron as for a pick here you go, if you watch ebay at all you might have seen it already.

[goatee]

I forgot to mention there is supposedly 2000 miles on the rebuild if that helps any. Like I said it sounded GREAT while I on the freeway. That 5 speed sure helps. If we can't get it started today with a little luck its going on a trailer and Ill start on your suggestions at home. If any of those were wrong wouldn't I have heard some kind of racket? The car just turned off and the power stayed on. Anyway, Thanks again.

[jason]

After you crank are the plugs wet? The carb bits account for the idling problem I think. It almost sounds that something disconnected on you in the ignition circuit as it happened suddenly. Is the L20b using points or an electronic ignition? Perhaps getting a inexpensive multi meter and go through the ignition wiring while your waiting would be a good idea. Good luck with trip!

[James]

If you can determine that there are no electrical, timing, or fuel issues - pull off the valve cover and make sure that the cam sprocket didn't come loose. I had this happen once - car just stopped - no weird noises it just stopped. Two bent valves. I don't think it is that with yours as you were having some other issues (hope it is something easier!!!), but it is easy to check.

[goatee]

thanks for your thoughts! it made me recall something else. the last time we stopped before getting onto the freeway when i turned it off it kepttrying to run. i know it has something drawing power as well because the battery was pretty well dead this morning.

[datzenmike]

..... Anyway finally after about 80 miles of great sounding cruising on highway or so the engine just cuts out, no sputter, bucking or noise just dies.

..... Tried starting and it mostly just turns over. It has GREAT spark from all spark plugs (shocked me each time heh heh) and I pulled the hose clear up to the carb and it spits fuel like crazy when you turn it over. I can look in to the bowl and see fuel dump in as well.

The car turns over and if it starts at all it just lopes something fiece if I give it a little gas. If I give it any more it just dies. I opened back up into the carb and the clip that holds the needle in had fallen off somehow and was in the bowl. I put it all back together but no change. Its hard to hear much as at certain rpms the new exhaust rubs and makes a heck of a racket. Any thoughts?

With the exception of EFI I have never seen a car shut off suddenly that ran out of fuel... It always gave warning and stuttered. Sounds like too rich.... black plugs and run on after key shut off. Jet fell out??

Set the timing notch on the pulley at 12 degrees on the compression stroke and take the distributor cap off. Is the rotor just under and pointing to the #1 spark plug wire on the cap????

If it is, the spark is timed close enough to start and run. You have spark and fuel only thing left is throw the Weber in the trunk and put an Hitachi on and drive home.

[goatee]

Got the car home and took it to a friend of my father in laws who used to run racecars, knows a lot about carbs (not this kind) and whatnot. Eventually we ended up taking the cover off and my cam is broken into three pieces!!!! The middle section snapped right off on both sides. Im trying to get the pictures off my wifes HTC and not having any luck so far. I'll get the pictures and numbers off the cam by morning hopefully. Also we are just about positive that the valves in at least 4 and 3 (assuming four is closest to the firewall) are bent because when he put and air hose to them air could just blow by. He put it in number two and it can't, didn't try one not sure why.
Any thoughts on the breakage? What a blow it was when I took the cover off. I barely made it 80 miles.

[goatee]

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Cropped a little funny because of photobucket but there you go.

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[James]

Well that just sucks. I didn't want to be right - and this is worse. I wonder if you had valve clearance issues and it got worse until the cam broke. What do the cam lobes look like? Are they scorched?

[jason]

Wow, that is a problem that's unexpected! Well, at least you can go get a new cam now ....

[datzenmike]

The cam lobes look well oiled. If the cam timing was wildly out and the #2 and #3 pistons came up and hit open valves the force would be transferred upward through the valve and rocker arms and would push up from under the cam possibly punching the middle section out like what we have here.

If the woodruff key has sheered on the crank timing gear, the timing chain would stop turning the cam. If so the pistons won't have survived and wouldn't have gone quietly into that dark night. Boom.

Try turning the cam with a wrench to see if the chain is still locked to the crank.

[thisismatt]

That sucks. The picture cropping is just because of the setup of this site...an unfortunate result of the "upgraded" forum software which has the avatars on the right and restricts the message width so any pictures wider get cutoff. On some browsers you can right click the picture and "view image" to open the image alone on the page and see it fully.