Idler arms

BEO 510 · Post by **BEO 510** » 19 Oct 2023 02:27

A picture of how it compares to a standard one? And does it match the measurements on that 1969 service bulletin?

Chadsinto510s · Post by **Chadsinto510s** » 19 Oct 2023 07:04

BEO 510 wrote: ↑19 Oct 2023 02:27 A picture of how it compares to a standard one? And does it match the measurements on that 1969 service bulletin?

I can do that. I don't have a factory part anymore but I can compare it to the Moog that just came out of the car.

Chadsinto510s · Post by **Chadsinto510s** » 20 Oct 2023 07:24

It would appear they went with option A dimensionally. At least that's the closest I'm coming to with the dimensions given on the sheet. I don't have a great way of making those particular measurements not to mention I don't understand some of the dimensions given. Like where are they measuring from? Anyway... visual comparison. Hope it helps:

BEO 510 · Post by **BEO 510** » 20 Oct 2023 20:54

Thanks for the pictures. So the Apex idler is for a sedan? Assuming your wagon have a wagon pitman arm on the steering box, will this be an issue?
Perhaps a question for icehouse?

icehouse · Post by **icehouse** » 22 Oct 2023 17:56

BEO 510 wrote: ↑20 Oct 2023 20:54 Thanks for the pictures. So the Apex idler is for a sedan? Assuming your wagon have a wagon pitman arm on the steering box, will this be an issue?
Perhaps a question for icehouse?

I would just bolt it on. If the crosslink isn't straight I would just shim the bearings. Looks like it has a zillion extra threads on the frame rail side.

Chadsinto510s · Post by **Chadsinto510s** » 23 Oct 2023 07:33

BEO 510 wrote: ↑20 Oct 2023 20:54 Thanks for the pictures. So the Apex idler is for a sedan? Assuming your wagon have a wagon pitman arm on the steering box, will this be an issue?
Perhaps a question for icehouse?

You're welcome for the pics.

I assume the APEX one is for the sedan. I also assume none of the aftermarket manufacturers are aware of any changes between early/late and wagon/sedan. USUALLY TSB parts, like that old one someone dug up, end up adopted to the catalog as an official "only use this part for this application" type thing. This doesn't appear to have happened. Neither our current catalog or any of our old ones mentions a second idler arm number at all. As such I'm doubting the aftermarket ever knew they existed.

I ASSUME my wagon still has a wagon pitman arm on it but I'm not the original owner so who knows?

Now if I could just find a damn nut the fit the center link end....

Chadsinto510s · Post by **Chadsinto510s** » 23 Oct 2023 07:38

icehouse wrote: ↑22 Oct 2023 17:56
I would just bolt it on. If the crosslink isn't straight I would just shim the bearings. Looks like it has a zillion extra threads on the frame rail side.

I hadn't thought of that yet. Thanks for the idea... I'm still trying to get an answer on what sized nut goes on the center-link end. The one supplied doesn't fit. It was on there like 1 thread so tight I had to get tools out to get it off. So far I am NOT impressed with the customer service. The parts is gorgeous though for something as basic as an idler arm....

At least they updated the website. New, higher price too....

EDIT: Just got off the phone with them. Very pleasant and helpful. The nut is supposed to be 1/2-20. They offered to send me a new stud if I can't get this one to work. Feeling better about the customer service.

ALSO: I mentioned there where 2 possibilities for idler arms and they had no idea that was the case. I'm betting no one but us weirdos know...

Chadsinto510s · Post by **Chadsinto510s** » 24 Oct 2023 07:06

Turns out the threads just needed cleaned up. After knowing what size all is well. I HOPE to put this on this weekend.

Chadsinto510s · Post by **Chadsinto510s** » 30 Oct 2023 09:03

Ok. Some installed pics:

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: ResizerImage5237.jpg (621.97 KiB) Viewed 226 times

I do need new bolts for it now though as it's mounting plate is thicker than a factory style one and my reinforcement plate is taking up some space too.

Easy install though. Some notes: You will have to put a wrench the upper nut that's related to the pivot point that connects to the center link or you won't get the center link nut tight. Ever. Maybe using power tools you could but I did not use power tools.

Chadsinto510s · Post by **Chadsinto510s** » 30 Oct 2023 09:06

Center link levelness (is that a word? lol.) readings:

Before installation:

: ResizerImage5231.jpg (599.56 KiB) Viewed 226 times

After installation:

: ResizerImage5236.jpg (577.2 KiB) Viewed 226 times

Came out real darn close to level. I'm not sure I could really make it any better. These where taken on my lift so it could be canted just a little.

Chadsinto510s · Post by **Chadsinto510s** » 30 Oct 2023 09:15

Initial impressions of the product:

WOW! It took 10+ weeks to get. I understand they were updating the design AND waiting on parts but they could have given a heads up before I started calling 6 weeks in... Looks GREAT! Fits easy. APPEARS to be good to go with my wagons current pitman arm and center link set up. Feels pretty good driving it. Like, my car is her old self and very confidence inspiring to drive again. She hasn't been very confidence inspiring since the old idler arm crapped out. I'll know more after I get it re-aligned. During all of this I replaced the tie rod ends on both sides and did a tape measure toe setting. I also found a broken washer on my sway bar bushing that was most definitely not helping with how she had been handling. That's now fixed but I'd like a better solution to the current set up.

In the long run we shall see. I daily this car (about 27 miles a day. 1/3ish of which is twisty mountain roads.) and have for close to 20 years now. Let's hope she holds up as well or better than the Moog with delrin inserts I just replaced. At least I can rebuild this one.

Nerius · Post by **Nerius** » 31 Oct 2023 03:06

Great review, thank you for the info!

Chadsinto510s · Post by **Chadsinto510s** » 13 Nov 2023 09:36

Ok. Final review:

I did several things to the car all at once and not just this idler arm. I also replaced all tie rod ends AND put the T3 T/C rods in. After an alignment and getting used to the slight change in handling I have to say this idler is pretty great. The steering oddly feels lighter than it ever used to even with the increased castor I dialed into her. I went from close to zero deg positive to 2.5 deg positive castor. You'd think it would make the steering feel heavier with the extra castor but I have found the opposite to be true. Not sure if it's related to the idler or if it's just me. Over all VERY happy and will probably acquire one for my 2 door project.

Post by **bertvorgon** » 13 Nov 2023 10:21

2.5 is actually not that much, at least relative to what we run, 5 - 6 degrees.

It is good the have SOME castor, as that helps the steering wheel to head for center,
just a natural condition as castor increases.

Chadsinto510s · Post by **Chadsinto510s** » 13 Nov 2023 10:51

bertvorgon wrote: ↑13 Nov 2023 10:21 2.5 is actually not that much, at least relative to what we run, 5 - 6 degrees.

It is good the have SOME castor, as that helps the steering wheel to head for center,
just a natural condition as castor increases.

That's why I dialed in more than near the 0deg that it was to 2.5DEG positive with the T3 T/C rods. I'm running urethane front bushings and didn't want to yank on them too much. I "heard" it was hard on urethane bushing to be used in such a way compared to doing the same with OEM rubber bushings. Can anyone confirm this?

I wouldn't mind more castor and probably gotta have the alignment redone as I want to change the front right height a little I think. Not running coil overs so I haven't decided on this part just yet.

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