BACK TO MY NISSAN ROOTS

[510rob]

...I can see that that is going to have to be rectified for sure...damn!

is this the official start of the evolution of a future of improvement tweaks?

[bertvorgon]

NAAAAHHHHH.......wait.....I do tend to drive a bit aggressive occasionally...but...I said I was NOT going to mess with this...but....It just feels a tad weird...and it would only take a bit to make it better......shocks do wonderful things...and then of course there are the better springs that should go with the appropriate shock...but..with todays new speed laws...why bother...but...there is the ODD time...when NOBODY is around....
........
..........
............ I'm going down..........I can feel it......

[510rob]

It is inevitable, isn't it?

[bertvorgon]

Yes...when you are born a gear head, and love the "feeling" of a good handling car, it in some ways becomes a challenge, competition really, to take what the fine minds thought there were creating for the masses...and THEN...make it REALLY WORK.

The new owner of my Toyota showed up today, complimenting me on the Toyota suspension. As much as I set it up for a variety of conditions...it did those very, very well, and safely. It was done not by buying stupidy over priced TIEN this and that, all wonderfully blue anodized plated, but by understanding suspension, and what was REALLY needed. That as cool to hear that! In some ways it was my 510 with a Toyota badge.

Andy has already talked to some guys down south, who concour with what I had been feeling, as I sometimes do not trust myself. The factory made the small, fast bump sensitivity too stiff, so the car gets very skippy feeling. I do not like that, nor is it fast, as it does not inspire confidence in a fast corner. They have a spring/shock package...


I am doomed.......

Oh, as a side note, I had to take the car to the Infinti dealer ( details would be boring ) but, it was interesting. The demographic's for this car are definately on the higher side of the economic spectrum. It was interesting as to how I was interacted with, and what that higher end offers, when you take your car in. Even though I was in my usual blue jeans and work clothes, I was actually treated very, very well, even though I looked so much different from the DOT com guys, with brief cases, and business women, that were in the service area. Maybe that is my own bias coming through, but, It was different from my interactions in the Toyota dealership, and other lower end cars, that I have been to. The car even had a steering wheel cover on it, when I got into it, plus the usual floor protector. Just an observation at any rate.

[Baz]

Hi Keith, Surprised to see that you have obtained a 35 series. A great platform to work on.

We have recently purchased a series 2 M35 Autech Stagea 350S. http://www.autech.co.jp/HISTORY-SV/M35S ... index.html
The S2 is at the lower portion of the brochure.
Interesting reading your comments on the throttle action.
We have a similar prob with throttle control , except that it is too sensitive.
Suspension on the Stag is fine as its a soft nismo set up. Different rear xmember on the Stag to the G35. Tho most other parts are identical to the G35.
Seats are perfect as they are the light weight nismo option.
bottom of page
http://www.autech.co.jp/HISTORY-SV/M35S ... index.html

With the Bose system in the G35, has it a sub mounted in the spare tyre.? The Stag has & I thought it sounded quite fine.
Does the G35 have an alloy hood like the Stag?
Will follow with interest your throttle mods, I just cant come to grips with this drive by wire feel or the lack of it.
cheers
Baz

[bertvorgon]

Morning Baz,

You know, I would agree that it is too sensitive, but, it depends on what I am trying to do. If I am heel and toeing DOWN through the gears, that is where I find it hard to modulate, almost like it reacts a bit to much. Then, when I am just going slow, say in second gear, and want to drop it to first, just as I try to come off the slow idle position, it seems to lag on the pick up of the throttle. In doing some reading on the couple of G35 sites, I thought I saw someone else complaining, and that there is some computer related re-flash that can be done. I almost think it was an after market thing, but, I will ask the dealer when I am in there next tuesday.

I found myself being very critical of this "modern" car, comparing it to my GTS and of course the good old carb'd 510. I find also, that with the clutch, even though it has a very short throw, it seems the MASS takes time to move, and I find the timing is critical to smooth heel and toe down shifts.

I find the seat pretty good, except with my silly short legs, I am a bit closer than I should be, and relation to the shifter. I wish it had an adjustable pedal box, that could come forward. It is nice that the seating position is so adjustable, with the wheel being able to move also.

Yes, the BOSE system has the sub in the trunk. I now have used the CD player, and I have revised my thoughts on the sound system, it is very good for a factory one. My Toyota sound system was hard to beat though.

I would say the hood is NOT alloy, it feels very heavy when you lift it. This car weighs 3,495 LBS I believe. They did a good job on the gearing I feel. The Sport Coupe has the 3.5 rear end, to compensate for the taller 19" tires. The over all "feel" as you row it through the box, is that the spacing is really good, with the bottom to mid range being what they were shooting for. I can feel it running out of breathing when it gets into the taller gears. Not that it is still not going, just not fast. I can see my 510 would eat it for breakfast up there. That being said, that guy Deni and I raced a few years ago ( which is what got me to really look at these things) with some sort of power enhancement, had his car going very well at the elevated speed. The short tires I had on at the time, kept me RPM limited, but, he only just pulled me at 130+ MPH.

I think they out tricked themselves by re-valving the shocks for the "SPORT" package. It has been my experience that on a lightly loaded rear end, it is better to leave it fairly compliant. Andy at Specialty had talked to the Nissan comp guys, and they agreed that it was valved to stiif on the small bump sensitivity. My dilema, is do I just try to change the shocks, or do the whole spring thing. I do not want to really drop the car much, for a variety of reasons, one being getting OUTSIDE of alignment spec's, which then brings in the spectre of camber adjustment. ARG! The tires on this thing are not cheap, and I see guys have had wear issues, which may or may not be driver related...you never really know on the Internet.

That is quite the car you have there BAZ, it is amazing what the rest of the world gets, and we get the boring stuff the factorys spit out for the masses.

[bertvorgon]

My last tank of fuel gave me 25 MPG, which reflects some very slow "rush" hours, so I can kinda see that the 24-27 MPG is going to be my normal range of day to day driving. It is very hard to keep this thing less than 120 KMH on the freeway, as it is so very smooth and effortless at that speed. I am really going to try to keep it at 100 on this next tank, just to see if I can keep it on the high side of the milage, what with our fuel prices being what they are.

I have now pounded on the suspension, and it has a VERY nasty reaction to bumps in corners, to the extent that it could be VERY DANGEROUS. Interesting, for a car with this so called pedigree. As a matter of fact, a neighbour at work, had one of these cars, and I was over talking to him yesterday. He had sold the car last year, to a friend. Within 6 months, the fellow had had the rear end come around on him...and he wrote the car off. On smooth corners, it is just fine, and I can balance it with the throttle, considering I am still unsure of final grip with the tires. It does get a bit "wallowy" on transitional stuff, which is something I would not have expected with this car.

For those that were with me on the Squamish hiway that day, I can now understand why the guys G35 rear end stepped out on him. Being aware of this issue is really important to say the least.

I guess I am just plain disappointed that this is just another car massed produced, but, if you want it to really handle WITH CONTROL, you have to fix it yourself. Which is whay there are so many aftermarket companies making spring and shock packages, quite staggering actually, after looking on the Net.

Our 510's, when set up properly, have impeccable manors, when compared with this thing.

[bertvorgon]

Worked my way through another tank of fuel, got 26.4 MPG, so I can see this will be the "normal" range for rush hour/commuting/some stop and go traffic. I figure it would get close to 30 on a full highway trip, with speeds no more than 110 KMH.

I do love the steering on this thing, it is very precise and turns in very, very well, with good bite. If it was not for the "wallowy" shock/spring combo, this will be a good platform. The factory puts some good camber into it, and there is some potential to pull a bit more castor into it also. I did notice that it runs some rear toe-in also, to help with trailing throttle oversteer/rear tracking. At high speed it is very stable, and considering how wide the tires are, tracks well on groved/cupped pavement.

Turns out also, these things have a brake issue relating to the pedal travel and feel, on first application...and it remains a mystery to EVERYONE!!! I spent 2 hours reading on the Net, and no one has figured it out. I also saw how staggering the misinformation/lack of knowledge people have..in this case, regarding brakes. On first application of the brake, the pedal goes deep, but, with a quick, race style pump, the pedal firms right up, and the grip goes up DRAMATICALLY. FART, very hard to be smooth and lineal on braking, specially when trying to heel and toe. It is almost like pad knock back, but, it is not. It does it in a straight line. The diagnosis will continue.

[Dave Patten]

Keith,
Regarding the brake pedal travel on first hit.

I'm guessing but under low to no brake fluid pressure, something in the system is still slowly retracting even further back. Some kind of extra tight brake piston to caliper tolerance or maybe a brake master that is slow in returning to full free play position. Maybe something in the brake booster is delaying a full return adding additional pedal travel on first application.

There has to be some feature in the system that is slow in returning the brakes to a full off position that is adding pedal travel not there duirng rapid application.

Ultimstely it may have been designed into the system to help keep pads clear of the rotors to reduce drag and increase fuel mileage.

Just my thoughts.

[bertvorgon]

Hey Dave, I think that is the direction we will look at, it is something like that. From reading on the net, brakes were ok for the first 20,000 Km or so, then it starts to slide. Only one guy, who had changed his master cylinder, seemed to have a better brake again.

I was stuck in horrible slow traffic tonight, and was continually on the brakes, and it just seemed like they were geting pulled back too far. That quick confidence snap on the pedal that most racers do, just fixes it in a heart beat, as the pads are right back out there. When I spun the wheel ( front) when we checked the bearings, I must admit I was amazed at how far the pads had retracted, with absolutley NO drag, touching, anything. That is not what I have experienced with brakes in my life.

Sure hard to be smooth when you are approaching a corner, and want to set it up with the brakes, on the down shift.

Andy even suggested a residual valve...we will see.....

On the positive, I did blaze through my favorite "S" curve exit today, in the dry, smooth surface, and was impressed with it's control, considering I'm still sneaking up on the tire grip threshold. The rear actually was very planted under throttle, and the VLSD was nice, reminding me of the 510. The springs though really do point out they are on the soft side, as the weight transfer aft to fore was very sudden, and not well controlled, as when I got back on the throttle, that wallowy feel was there, as I fed it through the corners. It did GRIP though, which is the important part.

[Datsun 1600 Nut]

Wow, I just read through this topic and I will be honest I am no suspension wizz but one would expect a major motor car manufacturer to design a proper, correctly functioning suspension setup for their production models, regardless of vehicle weight etc, so as not to put prospective owners in danger as you mention in a few of your posts (rear end coming round namely)...

Will be interesting to see your progression to a full solution on the issue. Otherwise, congrats on the new purchase.

Cheers
Jared

[bertvorgon]

Morning World,

Don't get me wrong, it is only at the top end of the preformance envelope, that things start to come apart. Any mass produced car will have that. Even I must remember this car is really made for the luxury sport market, and only the top 5% of drivers will ever really drive it past it's capabilities, thus pointing out it's quirks.

Remember how may Porsches got written off by trailing throttle oversteer in those cars, in the hands of rookie drivers, who thought their Porsche was invinceable. Why they have such wide rear track now.

Joe Average wants a quiet, smooth ride, with some sense of "handling", when he just drives through your average exit ramp. How many will actually run a corner at the absolute traction edge, on their day to day commute? ( I do on occasion.... )

As most of us on this site want a spectacular handling car, above all else, look at what we have to do to take a basic grocery getter, and make it into a quasi race car on the street.

This car is no different, the limits are just higher, before all hell breaks loose. As with any car, when you start to explore those limits, is when you find the problems.

As I have always enjoyed a very good, safe handling car, it is fun to dissect the Infinity, as I progress with it. There is a reason there are so many spring/shock packages out there for this thing, just like our 510's now. The key will be to get the RIGHT package for ME, and my driving style. I do not want the full race combo, just some thing with a bit more roll control, and the biggy...proper shock valving.

[caesarDX]

Keith,

Congrats on the new ride!
What ? Your aerostar not fast enough for me...
Catch you on the '99 when I am doing my morning warm ups.

Caesardx

[bertvorgon]

I finally grabbed some time to get the car onto the hoist at Specialty, to change the oil and filter, plus the air filter. The air filter was dirty beyond belief. I almost think that someone pillaged the K & N out of it, and put a used air filter in. I was getting rid of the K & N in there anyhow, so no big deal.
Everything was A.O.K under there, some signs of just touching on speed bumps, but, no leaks st all. Nissan used a ton of aluminum on this car, the whole rear sub frame is aluminum, control arms, bumpers, etc.

To change the oil is dead easy, best car I've done to date. The oil filter hangs right out there, you can get it by hand, and there is nothing for it to drip all over. Was the filter ever SMALL! Truly looked like it should be on a lawn mower.

I was going to do a back to back test of fuel milage, using Chevron 94 this time, which has NO ethanol. Just to see if the loss of economy from this stupid blended gas holds for this car also. But, the air filter was SO DIRTY, I'm going to see what I get with the thing not restricted first.

Plug changing looks to be a bit of a major job, that will be next. This idea of having plugs sit in an aluminum head, for 100,000 KM is just insane, as the factory puts no Never Sieze compound on them. We just did my sons Tracker, which has 80,000 KM on it. A couple of the plugs JUST came out, and you could see the threads were starting to gall. In his research, that has been a problem with the Tracker. FORD has had major issues with plugs also on new vehicles, and have ducked warranty stuff. As this car has such low KM, I know these plugs will be untouched at this point, and a good time to get it done.

The Specialty cars were in the shop, getting repaired from last years mayhem at the Childrens Charity Race. They are doing the Double National in Seattle at the end of the month.

[proflex]

You have to love how Tracey and Andy keep their shop so clean and organized. Just the way a performance shop should be. I hope you didn’t spill any oil on the floor when you did your LOF.