Headlight fix

Paint, body preparation and modification, interior work and electrical
User avatar
bertvorgon
Supporter
Posts: 10438
Joined: 04 Aug 2003 20:45
Location: White Rock, B.C. Canada

Headlight fix

Post by bertvorgon » 08 Nov 2018 08:21

This weekend I am going to try to find out why BOTH my headlights went out suddenly on the last drive.

We did the wire/harness wiggle, could hear the relay working, I had four way flashers and parking lights.

First thing I will check is power to the fuse box for the headlight feed. I sure hope that is all it is, that the wire has broken under the fuse box.

In looking at the wiring diagram, the red power wire taps into the white power wire somewhere in the harness, I hope there is no issue back down the pipe.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

User avatar
JasonLee
Supporter
Posts: 5
Joined: 13 Aug 2018 19:54
Location: Maple Ridge, BC

Re: Headlight fix

Post by JasonLee » 08 Nov 2018 17:58

Good luck with it Keith. It will be nice to get that mystery solved and done with.
Jason

User avatar
icehouse
Posts: 3270
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 17:06
Location: Everett Wa

Re: Headlight fix

Post by icehouse » 08 Nov 2018 19:34

Did you try high beam? The the factory hi/low relay has issues with galvanic corrosion. Most 510's 70-73 don't have high beams due to the relay issue. Maybe you bump the lever into high beam? Since each fuse is for each side of the car it can't be the fuse, or at least less likely. I've also seen the switch fail. Are you running higher wattage bulbs? Maybe your alternator overcharged and blew them out. I had that happen once on a Datto truck I had. Burnt out the bulbs and ruined the relay.
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

User avatar
bertvorgon
Supporter
Posts: 10438
Joined: 04 Aug 2003 20:45
Location: White Rock, B.C. Canada

Re: Headlight fix

Post by bertvorgon » 09 Nov 2018 06:10

NO high beam either.

I will also check voltage at plug, but to have TWO lights go at once even, I'm not that lucky. I have standard wattage bulbs.

Alternator is fine, I have a voltage meter.

Fuses were fine.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

User avatar
icehouse
Posts: 3270
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 17:06
Location: Everett Wa

Re: Headlight fix

Post by icehouse » 09 Nov 2018 08:17

Okay my guess is the switch at this point. Only other option I can imagine besides the switch is the ground, I can't imagine the ground just braking off for no reason, it also joins with the alternator ground so it's even less likely to loose both.
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

User avatar
Byron510
Moderator
Posts: 12036
Joined: 01 Jul 2003 23:06
Location: Maple Ridge, BC

Re: Headlight fix

Post by Byron510 » 09 Nov 2018 08:34

When we did a quick check on the last drive - the switching side of the circuit was working fine. I could clearly hear (and feel thanks to the old mechanical part) that the relay was switching from one circuit to the other just fine - at least the relay was working. Checking that the contact point were actually moving power was not confirmed.

Since the relay does switch the grounds in this system, this would have to be verified.
However checking that power was getting to the lights from the fuse box would be a first step. Simply checking at the light plug would confirm this, and working backwards to the fuse box if no power is present.

Once the source is confirmed, then checking of the grounding circuits is necessary.

Keith, you keep you car so damn clean, it wouldn't surprise me if all that washing has affected a ground somewhere in the system :-)

I agree with Jeff, hopefully it's a simple problem to locate and repair. The 510 harness was so simple in the first place and the funny thing is that your 'tech upgrades' themselves have likely doubled the amount of wire in your car! Keep us posted.

Byron
Love people and use things,
because the opposite never works.

User avatar
bertvorgon
Supporter
Posts: 10438
Joined: 04 Aug 2003 20:45
Location: White Rock, B.C. Canada

Re: Headlight fix

Post by bertvorgon » 09 Nov 2018 08:42

Thanks Guys,.....I feel overwhelmed by what it MIGHT be.

Monday is the day, as I am going to get a 3 day permit and drive to Andy's to check things out.

How..where would one check the grounding circuits?

It was instantaneous when the lights went out, no flicker, just wham..OUT!
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

510rob
Moderator
Posts: 4666
Joined: 09 Oct 2003 23:37
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact:

Re: Headlight fix

Post by 510rob » 09 Nov 2018 12:19

My money is on a failed relay. Easy fix is to replace it with a modern relay clipped into place with an adapter harness.

Just because the relay clicks with power doesn't mean that the high current contact still works.
510 headlight wiring.JPG
510 headlight wiring.JPG (75.31 KiB) Viewed 195 times
1) turn off your headlight switch.
2) disconnect the headlight relay connector from the headlight relay.
3) jumper a wire from the red/white stripe wire (at the headlight relay connector) to some ground on your car (use a piece of 16awg wire for the jumper)
4) turn on the headlight switch and see if the headlights work.

Repeat 1-4 but jumper the red/black stripe wire to ground and see if the other headlights work.

If the lights work, then your problem is either the relay, or the ground that the relay is attached to. But if the relay moves (clicks), then it has some ground.

Measure continuity between the black wire (at the headlight relay connector) to a ground somewhere.

check those and report back.

User avatar
bertvorgon
Supporter
Posts: 10438
Joined: 04 Aug 2003 20:45
Location: White Rock, B.C. Canada

Re: Headlight fix

Post by bertvorgon » 09 Nov 2018 13:38

Thanks Rob!

With meter in hand I will go......plus 5 gallons of gas and ONE match.....
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

Idoxlr8
Posts: 94
Joined: 11 Aug 2014 16:53
Location: Burnaby

Re: Headlight fix

Post by Idoxlr8 » 11 Nov 2018 17:35

I’d give up Keith and just sell it to me for what I think is fair.👍
260z owner
510 wannabe

User avatar
icehouse
Posts: 3270
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 17:06
Location: Everett Wa

Re: Headlight fix

Post by icehouse » 11 Nov 2018 21:20

510rob wrote:
09 Nov 2018 12:19
My money is on a failed relay.
We betting a dinner at our favorite Mexican restaurant?

I've never seen the relay fail in a way high and lows both don't work. The way it's constructed the relay looses connection though the 87b side of the relay, the 87a side as far as I have seen doesn't have an issue. Even my tan car has a "bad" relay I just re-pinned the headlights so only the outsides come on but in "high" mode. haha.

It's gotta be the switch!! Come on! Daddy needs a yummy dinner :)
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

510rob
Moderator
Posts: 4666
Joined: 09 Oct 2003 23:37
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact:

Re: Headlight fix

Post by 510rob » 11 Nov 2018 21:48

icehouse wrote:
11 Nov 2018 21:20
510rob wrote:
09 Nov 2018 12:19
My money is on a failed relay.
We betting a dinner at our favorite Mexican restaurant?

I've never seen the relay fail in a way high and lows both don't work. The way it's constructed the relay looses connection though the 87b side of the relay, the 87a side as far as I have seen doesn't have an issue. Even my tan car has a "bad" relay I just re-pinned the headlights so only the outsides come on but in "high" mode. haha.

It's gotta be the switch!! Come on! Daddy needs a yummy dinner :)
you are on.

There is a copper braid that bridges the 30 terminal to the floating contacts. That braided lead can, over 40+ years of movement, break!

Then neither path works.

Keith, I might need that relay as proof!!!

User avatar
icehouse
Posts: 3270
Joined: 17 Jul 2005 17:06
Location: Everett Wa

Re: Headlight fix

Post by icehouse » 11 Nov 2018 22:07

510rob wrote:
11 Nov 2018 21:48
icehouse wrote:
11 Nov 2018 21:20
510rob wrote:
09 Nov 2018 12:19
My money is on a failed relay.
We betting a dinner at our favorite Mexican restaurant?

I've never seen the relay fail in a way high and lows both don't work. The way it's constructed the relay looses connection though the 87b side of the relay, the 87a side as far as I have seen doesn't have an issue. Even my tan car has a "bad" relay I just re-pinned the headlights so only the outsides come on but in "high" mode. haha.

It's gotta be the switch!! Come on! Daddy needs a yummy dinner :)
you are on.

There is a copper braid that bridges the 30 terminal to the floating contacts. That braided lead can, over 40+ years of movement, break!

Then neither path works.

Keith, I might need that relay as proof!!!
Keith we need the proof!!!!!!
"People don't like it when shit doesn't match their rule of thumb." Sam

User avatar
bertvorgon
Supporter
Posts: 10438
Joined: 04 Aug 2003 20:45
Location: White Rock, B.C. Canada

Re: Headlight fix

Post by bertvorgon » 12 Nov 2018 08:51

In another few hours I will be heading over to get the 510 and zip over to Specialty. I spent an hour yesterday looking at the wiring diagram,
trying to follow Mr. Electron's path.

I really do hope that if it is anything, it will be the relay. To get at my light switch now is a major mining expedition.

I also hope that Tracey has a relay that I just could plug in to try.

Soon we will know.....
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

User avatar
RMS
Supporter
Posts: 1649
Joined: 12 Oct 2009 01:03
Location: Richmond BC Canada

Re: Headlight fix

Post by RMS » 12 Nov 2018 09:11

if she don't I do. I also have a 73 front harness if its worst case.
two_68_510s wrote:I guess our donkeys are quicker then your sled dogs!

Post Reply