throwout bearing sleeve - sizing?

Engine, Transmission and related drivetrain.
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jon510
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throwout bearing sleeve - sizing?

Post by jon510 » 30 Dec 2014 00:48

Just wondering if there's a way to size the clutch throwout bearing sleeve based on the thickness of the pressure plate. Or if there's a way to tell when everything is bolted up if the sleeve is correct. I know if the wrong sleeve is used the clutch won't work.

I'm fitting the transmission up to my LD20t that has a 6-bolt flywheel and uses a 225mm clutch. So I ended up getting an ACT aftermarket clutch that is intended for a 240sx. Bolts right up to the LD flywheel, but looks to be a bit thicker (close to 1/4") than the pressure plate I pulled off the L16 that had a dogleg on it. I will bolt the stock one back up to the L16 and get an exact measurement in the next couple of days, but I'm worried that transferring over the throwout bearing sleeve from the dogleg, I might run into issues.

(The ACT/225mm bearing is massive compared to the 510 one, but it actually looks to be pretty much the same thickness so hopefully that won't affect things. I banged my head against the wall for a while trying to figure out why I couldn't get a 4 speed to bolt up once the clutch was on, but it turned out the PP was interfering with the bell-housing - the dogleg cleared it without an issue.)

I found this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5942&hilit=throwout ... eve+size
Gives a bunch of measurements for the sleeves and PPs - I will measure the PP I have to see if it matches up to any of these, but I'm still not totally clear on whether I can calculate which sleeve to use if the PP isn't a stock thickness. Thanks for any ideas,

Jon
692dr Z20t
71 wagon LD20t - one day...

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zKars
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Re: throwout bearing sleeve - sizing?

Post by zKars » 30 Dec 2014 07:24

Yes, much has been said about the various sizes of sleeves and what they came from, but very little about what to do when you buy various clutches that aren't stock. Fortunately, its simple.

92 mm is the magic number. From the flywheel surface to the surface on the throw out sleeve tabs where the fork touches them. +/- a couple mm. Bolt your clutch on, then measure from the flywheel friction surface to the clutch fingers where the throwout bearing will rest, then compute how much more to get 92. Then choose the bearing sleeve that gives you that.

Works for any L18 - L28 engine with any nissan tranny that bolts right up.

Three B's Racing
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Re: throwout bearing sleeve - sizing?

Post by Three B's Racing » 30 Dec 2014 07:59

Best way is with old clutch disc and pressure plate bolted to the flywheel. Then measure from the pressure plates spines where the t/o bearing rides down through to an even surface. I did this measuring off the bottom of the crankshafts pilot bearing hole. But however you do it, it has to be the same procedure for both clutches. Then with both measurements you can see if the T/O bearing carrier is correct (only if both clutch measurements are the same) or needs to be either taller or shorter.
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okayfine
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Re: throwout bearing sleeve - sizing?

Post by okayfine » 30 Dec 2014 09:19

zKars' 92mm number is much more scientific, but generally if you use the complete clutch kit from one specific application (in the OP's case, 240sx) then you're GTG. That includes the SX T/O bearing and carrier. Following that mantra, I've used a VG30 clutch on both a L20B (225mm flywheel) and a KA swap.
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Re: throwout bearing sleeve - sizing?

Post by datzenmike » 30 Dec 2014 11:40

Years ago I wrote down 3.52" or 89.4mm from some source. This is within one tenth of an inch. Seems legit...

I also noticed that there are a wide variety of sleeves or collar lengths and not just one each for the 200mm, 225mm, and 240mm PPs.
"Nissan 'shit the bed' when they made these, plain and simple." McShagger510 on flattop SUs

jon510
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Re: throwout bearing sleeve - sizing?

Post by jon510 » 30 Dec 2014 13:43

Awesome, thanks for all the info! I'll figure out my measurements over the next couple days, I have a feeling I'll be in the market for a 240sx sleeve...

Jon

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Re: throwout bearing sleeve - sizing?

Post by Three B's Racing » 31 Dec 2014 04:26

okayfine wrote:zKars' 92mm number is much more scientific, but generally if you use the complete clutch kit from one specific application (in the OP's case, 240sx) then you're GTG. That includes the SX T/O bearing and carrier. Following that mantra, I've used a VG30 clutch on both a L20B (225mm flywheel) and a KA swap.
It's more scientific DOH! ok but it's a 510 we're not building a piano 8>) it is the way I've always done it when needed which has never let me down but I hear yah Julian. I replaced the 225mm clutch and flywheel in my S14 SR20DE with a turbo clutch setup which is 240mm but used instead a Fidanza 10lb flywheel. I knew I'd probably need another T/O bearing carrier so I used old tried and true and luckily in my stash of carriers I had two.


Happy New Years All, be smart tonight and lets stay out of the ground.
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jon510
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Re: throwout bearing sleeve - sizing?

Post by jon510 » 01 Jan 2015 14:06

I got my measurements. Old clutch PP was about 41mm deep from the flywheel at the fingers, sleeve I have is ~50mm in length - this makes it 39.5 from where the fork touches. Which gives me only ~80mm for the stock setup, but it seemed to work fine. My new PP is only 35mm to the fingers, but with the slightly bigger TO bearing and the way it sits on the sleeve, I only lose a couple mm total.

The 89-92mm measurement would jive with what I had on for total length of the sleeve and the PP, but if I take off the 10.5mm to where the fork sits the original setup is too short. If I look at the URL I posted originally, it looks like the 43-45mm dimension on the stock 510 PP + 38.5mm length sleeve (+6mm that isn't incorporated into the length on the diagram) this would make 89.5 or so the total length on the stock 510 apparatus, not to the clutch fork contact point. Of course, I'm not sure how accurate these tables are - it would seem that the sleeve I have currently actually is from a 225mm clutch from 71-71 (total length ~50mm so would correspond with 44.5mm on the chart)

The 92mm measurement is definitely to the surface where the fork contacts and not total length of the sleeve, correct?

Thanks again,

Jon

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zKars
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Re: throwout bearing sleeve - sizing?

Post by zKars » 01 Jan 2015 18:28

Here is a picture that shows the idea
image.jpg
image.jpg (12.84 KiB) Viewed 3748 times

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James
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Re: throwout bearing sleeve - sizing?

Post by James » 01 Jan 2015 18:48

Wouldn't it be slightly different with the clutch in place and bolted down as the fingers move towards the flywheel when it is bolted down on the clutch? I just bolted a clutch on this morning and noticed this.
Finished is better than perfect......

jon510
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Re: throwout bearing sleeve - sizing?

Post by jon510 » 01 Jan 2015 21:03

Zcars,

Any chance you could send me a bigger pic? I can't see where you're measuring to on the one you posted. thanks!

Jon

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zKars
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Re: throwout bearing sleeve - sizing?

Post by zKars » 02 Jan 2015 07:28

Hope this is better. The picture originally came from here:

http://www.classiczcars.com/topic/44389 ... ntry407667

Not my photo.

and Yes, the measurement is better when the clutch is bolted to the flywheel. The fingers do move some.
image.jpg
image.jpg (134.64 KiB) Viewed 3721 times

jon510
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Re: throwout bearing sleeve - sizing?

Post by jon510 » 02 Jan 2015 09:56

Hmmm. I have a measurement of 44mm from the TO bearing surface to the sleeve tabs with a '44.5'mm collar. And the PP height is 35mm. Giving me 79mm. Even if I went to the largest listed collar I could find on the tables (54.5) that only gets me to 89mm. I will double check my measurements with the PP later today but I feel like I must be doing something wrong here given that the old setup on the L16 was barely over 80mm and worked fine. I guess I'll see if the 54.5mm collar is still available from Nissan too. Thanks for all the info,

Jon

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