[quote=I had "Shields" make a lexan windshield for my Vintage racecar. They got it done fast and it fit perfectly. I sent them an old stock piece of glass that they used for forming. The best thing is that they now have the specs and can reproduce a piece at lower cost for anyone else. I'm sorry I can't find the original invoice so can't give you a comparison price. As for the quarter glass you can easily make your own. I installed tabs on the frame with Dzus fasteners so that I could remove mine easily for access when working on the car. I have seen others screw or bolt the windows in using spacers to give a gap for air exit.[/quote]
Thanks for the insight, I'll definitely look into them and the fasteners!
Dom's 510 Build
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diistinctive
- Posts: 24
- Joined: 11 Nov 2014 19:37
- Location: San Jose, CA
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bertvorgon
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- Joined: 04 Aug 2003 20:45
- Location: White Rock, B.C. Canada
Re: Dom's 510 Build (Takumi)
My opinion, if the car is track only, giv'er bullets with a lexan windshield.
If you are going to do a bit of street driving, I would never have a lexan windshield. I lived with side windows on both my driver and passenger windows, and the rear 1/4 windows, with lexan. It is a maintenance battle to keep them scratch free and to keep the natural hazing down...and it will happen.
When the sun hits straight on, that is just not great. The race cars run out of Specialty have to change their windshields after two seasons, as the haze gets bad enough to affect depth perception.
I finally had to change my side window a few years ago, and now that I'm not racing, I put the glass back in the doors.
NEVER....use paper towel to clean the windows. I would flush the lexan with cold water, dry lightly with flannel, then use the NOVUS plastic polish and anti-static treatment. Dust will go to those things like crazy.
That has been my experience.
here is a link to my lexan replacement project of my roll up drivers door window, if that is any help.
http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.ph ... ent#p61831
If you are going to do a bit of street driving, I would never have a lexan windshield. I lived with side windows on both my driver and passenger windows, and the rear 1/4 windows, with lexan. It is a maintenance battle to keep them scratch free and to keep the natural hazing down...and it will happen.
When the sun hits straight on, that is just not great. The race cars run out of Specialty have to change their windshields after two seasons, as the haze gets bad enough to affect depth perception.
I finally had to change my side window a few years ago, and now that I'm not racing, I put the glass back in the doors.
NEVER....use paper towel to clean the windows. I would flush the lexan with cold water, dry lightly with flannel, then use the NOVUS plastic polish and anti-static treatment. Dust will go to those things like crazy.
That has been my experience.
here is a link to my lexan replacement project of my roll up drivers door window, if that is any help.
http://www.the510realm.com/viewtopic.ph ... ent#p61831
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan
Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
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diistinctive
- Posts: 24
- Joined: 11 Nov 2014 19:37
- Location: San Jose, CA
Re: Dom's 510 Build (Takumi)
I appreciate you filling me in with your experience. Our only desire for them was weight loss, but I guess we'll have to look into it more. Just throwing the idea up in the air at this point. I bet the car will see some spirited street driving, but its main purpose is to be a AutoX and eventual road racer.
From what I understand they just seem like a pain in the ass? Ha. Did the racecars have to change because of a lack of maintenance, unlike your vehicle's sides, or? Maybe the question I should ask is did you ever figure out the difference in weight between the glass and lexan pieces, specific to the 510? Nice to see how it's done in your thread too.
From what I understand they just seem like a pain in the ass? Ha. Did the racecars have to change because of a lack of maintenance, unlike your vehicle's sides, or? Maybe the question I should ask is did you ever figure out the difference in weight between the glass and lexan pieces, specific to the 510? Nice to see how it's done in your thread too.
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diistinctive
- Posts: 24
- Joined: 11 Nov 2014 19:37
- Location: San Jose, CA
Re: Dom's 510 Build (Takumi)
Hooray for sanding and polishing.
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bertvorgon
- Supporter
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- Joined: 04 Aug 2003 20:45
- Location: White Rock, B.C. Canada
Re: Dom's 510 Build (Takumi)
The windshields in the race car(s) had plenty of TLC. The issue is the speed...that the crap is fired up at you by sticky race tires, rocks, tire rubber fluids, plus washing the car, thus leading to wear and tear. then it just plain gets a haze that you kinda don't notice, till you go into the sun, or, it's at a tangent.
I did my side windows of course, like you, to get rid of some up high weight. As I always drove my car to events, I elected to stay with the glass, for all the reasons, CLARITY being the big one. Plus, the seal is important as we do get rain and I raced in the rain, so did not want any leaks around the window frame, and then get rust starting.
I put as light a seat in my car as I could at the time and basically that was it. I left the heater in, which now I am ever more glad that I did. Many drives to the races were cold days, and even over mountain passes, so that heat was a godsend. Plus, for us up here, having a functional defroster is pretty important on wet days.
I never weighed stuff, but, I bet I maybe saved 20 lbs, between the glass and the passenger side wind up mechanism. All that stuff is pretty light in these old cars. I left the drivers side mechanism in with the lexan, as it was good to be able to roll the window up and down...for all the reasons. That of course accelerated the streaks on the lexan....BLECH. I bet I have put 10 bottle of that NOVUS on the side window.
I did the fiberglass hood and front fenders, moved the battery to the trunk and set it in a well ( lower CG ), slightly bad polar moment, but, better the weight is off the front, and, it offsets driver weight.
I chose really LOW gears, 4:624, as that really makes a difference. A slalom is about corner to corner squirt and gearing is the cheapest form of horsepower. Onto that I ran a 20 or 21" tall race tire, which was just totally dynamic in terms of acceleration. Coupled with that was a motor with high rpm capability, so I could run a gear and not upset the car with a gear shift.
Also, do NOT over cam your car, that cannot be said enough. Try to get as much low end torque as you can, with as broad a power band as possible. That will get you more performance than anything, if you have a tractable motor.
My car was not light, yet, I could compete against some very light cars.
Hope that helps!
I did my side windows of course, like you, to get rid of some up high weight. As I always drove my car to events, I elected to stay with the glass, for all the reasons, CLARITY being the big one. Plus, the seal is important as we do get rain and I raced in the rain, so did not want any leaks around the window frame, and then get rust starting.
I put as light a seat in my car as I could at the time and basically that was it. I left the heater in, which now I am ever more glad that I did. Many drives to the races were cold days, and even over mountain passes, so that heat was a godsend. Plus, for us up here, having a functional defroster is pretty important on wet days.
I never weighed stuff, but, I bet I maybe saved 20 lbs, between the glass and the passenger side wind up mechanism. All that stuff is pretty light in these old cars. I left the drivers side mechanism in with the lexan, as it was good to be able to roll the window up and down...for all the reasons. That of course accelerated the streaks on the lexan....BLECH. I bet I have put 10 bottle of that NOVUS on the side window.
I did the fiberglass hood and front fenders, moved the battery to the trunk and set it in a well ( lower CG ), slightly bad polar moment, but, better the weight is off the front, and, it offsets driver weight.
I chose really LOW gears, 4:624, as that really makes a difference. A slalom is about corner to corner squirt and gearing is the cheapest form of horsepower. Onto that I ran a 20 or 21" tall race tire, which was just totally dynamic in terms of acceleration. Coupled with that was a motor with high rpm capability, so I could run a gear and not upset the car with a gear shift.
Also, do NOT over cam your car, that cannot be said enough. Try to get as much low end torque as you can, with as broad a power band as possible. That will get you more performance than anything, if you have a tractable motor.
My car was not light, yet, I could compete against some very light cars.
Hope that helps!
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan
Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
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diistinctive
- Posts: 24
- Joined: 11 Nov 2014 19:37
- Location: San Jose, CA
Re: Dom's 510 Build
Wow! What a plethora of information. Thank's for taking the time to explain Kieth.
Well it's starting to seem like the lexan isn't the best of ideas, not until there's a purpose built car in the garage. Someday! maybe. I didn't know that the material was so finicky. In terms of sealing that makes sense too. I don't want the car to see rain but can never be too safe with our good friend rust.
I think in the end this thing will be as bare as can be. I plan to go the fiberglass fenders, hood, and trunk route. Thought of the battery going in the cabin, but most put it as rearward as possible, makes the most sense. Recessing the battery in the trunk next to the fuel cell is a neat trick I like.
Gearing isn't something I'm completely familiar with if I'm honest. I need to do a bit more research to understand fully. Already have the 280zx transmission, but need to track down a diff. Looking for a CLSD R180 with 4.11 gears at the moment..
Thank you for the engine tuning advice as well. Not sure what cam is in the 2.2l at the moment, said to be mild, we'll see later on.
Might as well put the plan out on paper for some constructive criticism.
Bodywork:
BRE Spook
Fiberglass Hood
Fiberglass Flared Fenders
Pinch me am I dreaming rear "Full Quarter Panel with BRE Flare" on Futofab?? Just looked and haven't seen this listed before? (My rear quarters were poorly repaired by some previous owner and replacement panels would be my best bet. This is intriguing.)
Fiberglass Trunk Lid
Replacement Tail Light Panel
Replacement Rear Valence
Ermish Roll Cage, and Seam welding
New Floor panels Front/Rear
Seat supports Driver/Passenger
Clean Windshield!
Passenger Eyebrow Trim
Suspension:
No use in listing, but all new suspension bits through Troy Ermish tc rods, coilovers ect. And Rear Camber/Toe Adjusters through FutoFab.
Avon ZZR 215/55-13 tires? Any experience with you guys? Hoosier A6s maybe?
Brakes:
10.5 Wilwood 4 Disk Brake Kit
Powertrain:
Recently bought the NAPZ/280zx package but still need a diff.
Probably a Wolf Creek CV kit?
8 gallon fuel cell
And oh yeah, some yellow paint.
Yellow exterior, white interior/engine bay, gray underside. Maybe gray roll cage if we decide to take the time to mask it all off. Probably will.
Not a complete list, but a relatively comprehensive one.
Well it's starting to seem like the lexan isn't the best of ideas, not until there's a purpose built car in the garage. Someday! maybe. I didn't know that the material was so finicky. In terms of sealing that makes sense too. I don't want the car to see rain but can never be too safe with our good friend rust.
I think in the end this thing will be as bare as can be. I plan to go the fiberglass fenders, hood, and trunk route. Thought of the battery going in the cabin, but most put it as rearward as possible, makes the most sense. Recessing the battery in the trunk next to the fuel cell is a neat trick I like.
Gearing isn't something I'm completely familiar with if I'm honest. I need to do a bit more research to understand fully. Already have the 280zx transmission, but need to track down a diff. Looking for a CLSD R180 with 4.11 gears at the moment..
Thank you for the engine tuning advice as well. Not sure what cam is in the 2.2l at the moment, said to be mild, we'll see later on.
Might as well put the plan out on paper for some constructive criticism.
Bodywork:
BRE Spook
Fiberglass Hood
Fiberglass Flared Fenders
Pinch me am I dreaming rear "Full Quarter Panel with BRE Flare" on Futofab?? Just looked and haven't seen this listed before? (My rear quarters were poorly repaired by some previous owner and replacement panels would be my best bet. This is intriguing.)
Fiberglass Trunk Lid
Replacement Tail Light Panel
Replacement Rear Valence
Ermish Roll Cage, and Seam welding
New Floor panels Front/Rear
Seat supports Driver/Passenger
Clean Windshield!
Passenger Eyebrow Trim
Suspension:
No use in listing, but all new suspension bits through Troy Ermish tc rods, coilovers ect. And Rear Camber/Toe Adjusters through FutoFab.
Avon ZZR 215/55-13 tires? Any experience with you guys? Hoosier A6s maybe?
Brakes:
10.5 Wilwood 4 Disk Brake Kit
Powertrain:
Recently bought the NAPZ/280zx package but still need a diff.
Probably a Wolf Creek CV kit?
8 gallon fuel cell
And oh yeah, some yellow paint.
Yellow exterior, white interior/engine bay, gray underside. Maybe gray roll cage if we decide to take the time to mask it all off. Probably will.
Not a complete list, but a relatively comprehensive one.
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bertvorgon
- Supporter
- Posts: 12017
- Joined: 04 Aug 2003 20:45
- Location: White Rock, B.C. Canada
Re: Dom's 510 Build
here's a picture of my battery well. When we did this some 30+ years ago, I used a Honda Civic size battery. Today, there are a multitude of light weight batteries that would do the job.
Don't under estimate what you might require if you plan on street driving, etc, where the electrical load with lights, etc, is higher than just the ignition. Make the well big enough to have a larger battery if required down the road. Make sure you run a good ground in the trunk, and it's always a good idea to run a ground strap from the starter motor mount, to the body, keeps Mr. Electron happy.
Make sure your oil pan is up to the task, and run some sort of low oil pressure warning light. Slaloms can really develop some g-loads on toss in and you don't want to be uncovering the pickup.
Also, don't out trick yourself on brake pad choice, just because you are building a "race car", the last you you really need at a slalom is race pads. You want braking NOW...not when the pad finally heat up. I have lived that one and when I pitched the race pads and put in the softest compound I could get, that make solo's so much better, same with my hillclimbs.
Don't under estimate what you might require if you plan on street driving, etc, where the electrical load with lights, etc, is higher than just the ignition. Make the well big enough to have a larger battery if required down the road. Make sure you run a good ground in the trunk, and it's always a good idea to run a ground strap from the starter motor mount, to the body, keeps Mr. Electron happy.
Make sure your oil pan is up to the task, and run some sort of low oil pressure warning light. Slaloms can really develop some g-loads on toss in and you don't want to be uncovering the pickup.
Also, don't out trick yourself on brake pad choice, just because you are building a "race car", the last you you really need at a slalom is race pads. You want braking NOW...not when the pad finally heat up. I have lived that one and when I pitched the race pads and put in the softest compound I could get, that make solo's so much better, same with my hillclimbs.
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"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan
Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
Keith Law
1973 2 Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer
Re: Dom's 510 Build
CVs are heavier than the stock half shafts. R180 is also overkill for an LZ2.2, but fairly available from the newer STis. They don't bolt in, so you need the $500 stubs, but finding an old-school R180 CLSD in your gearing in good shape is going to cost as much or more than that combo.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson
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diistinctive
- Posts: 24
- Joined: 11 Nov 2014 19:37
- Location: San Jose, CA
Re: Dom's 510 Build
Thanks Keith. Solid tips to keep in mind once the fun stuff comes along. Electrical load shouldn't be too bad, only electronics will be the lights I believe. We're thinking of ditching the windshield wipers too because it shouldn't go outside while it's pouring. Good to know as well Julian. Do you happen to know a rough weight difference? The car will sit as low as possible keeping road driving in mind, so I feel like the half shafts may get taxed a bit much. Could be way off though. Guess I'll look for some R160 LSD 4.11 internals? Thanks again.
Not much to update, waiting on floor pans to come in and a few other small things. Inquiring about a 68 cross member in the Classifieds. Stoked to see Futofab releasing the rear quarters.
My attention has been deterred somewhat from the Datsun because I got nailed in a Chevron station on Friday, sitting still, waiting for a stall. Worst place to hit unfortunately. The body shop will have to do some good old patch paneling to fix. Never thought the GTI would need some Datsunesque work. ha.. It'll be hard for anyone to match the yellow paint so we'll see how it looks in the end... Sucks because in however many years this car will be a classic. At least I'd like to think so. 79k miles for a 12 year old car isn't too bad, lowest mileage example I could find.. Only 4200 20th Anniversary's on the planet, 200 in Canada, the rest in the US. 1050 in my Imola Yellow. Mine is #1268 as indicated by the dash plaque.
Anyway, back to Datsun news. Went to Laguna Seca yesterday to see the Troy Ermish camp and his 510s race around for the HMSA event. I've been before and seen his car race, just a little bit more unknowingly. Awesome to get up close and personal with the cars to take pictures of the little details (especially Troy's car where they're plentiful over the others) to pick and pull from for my car. I know they're cars you guys have seen before, but looking at race trim 510s is just cool.
Found it funny Troy was the only one to run on brand new Hoosier R6 tires for qually and switched to used Avon ZZRs for the race.
Think we'll run the same OMP steering wheel. Kinda silly but I've always loved the yellow stripe around the top of the wheel and have looked through other manufactures and haven't found the stripe on the right shape and size wheel.
Not much to update, waiting on floor pans to come in and a few other small things. Inquiring about a 68 cross member in the Classifieds. Stoked to see Futofab releasing the rear quarters.
My attention has been deterred somewhat from the Datsun because I got nailed in a Chevron station on Friday, sitting still, waiting for a stall. Worst place to hit unfortunately. The body shop will have to do some good old patch paneling to fix. Never thought the GTI would need some Datsunesque work. ha.. It'll be hard for anyone to match the yellow paint so we'll see how it looks in the end... Sucks because in however many years this car will be a classic. At least I'd like to think so. 79k miles for a 12 year old car isn't too bad, lowest mileage example I could find.. Only 4200 20th Anniversary's on the planet, 200 in Canada, the rest in the US. 1050 in my Imola Yellow. Mine is #1268 as indicated by the dash plaque.
Anyway, back to Datsun news. Went to Laguna Seca yesterday to see the Troy Ermish camp and his 510s race around for the HMSA event. I've been before and seen his car race, just a little bit more unknowingly. Awesome to get up close and personal with the cars to take pictures of the little details (especially Troy's car where they're plentiful over the others) to pick and pull from for my car. I know they're cars you guys have seen before, but looking at race trim 510s is just cool.
Found it funny Troy was the only one to run on brand new Hoosier R6 tires for qually and switched to used Avon ZZRs for the race.
Think we'll run the same OMP steering wheel. Kinda silly but I've always loved the yellow stripe around the top of the wheel and have looked through other manufactures and haven't found the stripe on the right shape and size wheel.
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diistinctive
- Posts: 24
- Joined: 11 Nov 2014 19:37
- Location: San Jose, CA
Re: Dom's 510 Build
Got it back from the soda blaster yesterday. Lots of lovely hidden treasures.. Desperately need to learn how to weld.
Recently had some 30+ year old shirts reproduced too.
Recently had some 30+ year old shirts reproduced too.
Re: Dom's 510 Build
Ah, welding, the most useful of abilities! Lots of welders here to point you in the right directions.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson
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diistinctive
- Posts: 24
- Joined: 11 Nov 2014 19:37
- Location: San Jose, CA
Re: Dom's 510 Build
A couple years later..
Re: Dom's 510 Build
Wow! That look great!
Re: Dom's 510 Build
That's quite the step, some how I feel like I missed something 
Progress on the body obviously looks good, did you get the welder and learn a whole lot in the last 2 years, or did you go the time effective route and farm out the steel work and paint?
And of course - what's next?
Byron
Progress on the body obviously looks good, did you get the welder and learn a whole lot in the last 2 years, or did you go the time effective route and farm out the steel work and paint?
And of course - what's next?
Byron
Love people and use things,
because the opposite never works.
because the opposite never works.
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diistinctive
- Posts: 24
- Joined: 11 Nov 2014 19:37
- Location: San Jose, CA
Re: Dom's 510 Build
Haha yeah there's been some in between. The cage was done by Troy Ermish, and it was worked on very slowly in a body shop for the past year or so. I'll dig up pictures and post them when I've got a chance.
It's become less of a father/son project, as I've been busy with school and have started racing gokarts. We got it back from paint about a month ago and have since been polishing and touching up where need be. The next step is just putting it all back together. We still have some suspension and brake parts to buy so it will be assembled as they stream in. I can show pictures of the 2.2l motor we have it for it too, I can't remember all of the details but I'm interested in having Rebello look at it if he's still in the business.
There's no real rush to finish these days, but we'll see it through eventually.
It's become less of a father/son project, as I've been busy with school and have started racing gokarts. We got it back from paint about a month ago and have since been polishing and touching up where need be. The next step is just putting it all back together. We still have some suspension and brake parts to buy so it will be assembled as they stream in. I can show pictures of the 2.2l motor we have it for it too, I can't remember all of the details but I'm interested in having Rebello look at it if he's still in the business.
There's no real rush to finish these days, but we'll see it through eventually.