Suspension Setups

Suspension, including wheel, tire and brake.
User avatar
bertvorgon
Supporter
Posts: 10438
Joined: 04 Aug 2003 20:45
Location: White Rock, B.C. Canada

Re: Suspension Setups

Post by bertvorgon » 27 Jul 2009 18:49

I guess I pretty much agree with Okayfine. This is where it does get a bit tough, as to how do you quantify what it both "feels" like, and, how is the car actually handling.

The actual shock valving is the big key here, and that may be what you are feeling. I think it is in agreement here, that a 50/50 bump/rebound rate, for the most part, works very well. And that is the tough part, as most shocks do not specify that rate. I had my fronts custom valved by Bilstein, and my rears..., they are what I needed. Too slow a rate in the rear, will cause the car to jack down, which causes evil handling, as the shock does not let the suspension springs to actually work. And yes, the shock if too stiff will give you a tendancy to either over/understeer, depending on which end is too stiff. Koni shocks were really bad for this...I been there.

You don't want to use the shock to set the over/understeer characteristics.

Bumpy..jerky...that gets to be a ride preference thing, balanced with the reality of what is the car really doing...on a given road surface. Things are always a trade off somewhere :lol: No matter what, under whatever condition, things are kinda right, if the wheels are staying on the road, IE the car does not feel skippy on the surface. You need to feel that the tire..and of course the feed back to both your ass, and your hands on the steering wheel, is staying in intimate contact with the road surface, under all but the most severe conditions. Again, say under very hard braking on a short frequency bumpy surface, you may feel the tires almost locking, under the brakes.

Suspension "stiffness", should not be confused with lack of CONTROLLED suspension travel. As some of us use very high spring rates, that is still matched to a shock that can control the whole package so to speak, AND, the resultant weight transfer, both fore and aft, and, of course body roll during cornering.

The other thing to not forget, as we all throw money at all this trick suspension stuff, is how hard are you using the car?! If you are just farting around, you may find the ride is going to feel stiff, with all the stuff you have bought, from reading this site. But, really get the car up to speed, and I mean speed, and not straight, and that is when you really do find out how things are working. What feels stiff now, is sure going to start to feel a lot softer as both the g-load and speeds go seriously up. And that is said with the fact that the anti -roll bars will effect how things work, as much as anything else. As some of you know, a bunch of us run NO rear bar, as our rear spring/shock rate, plus our 1 1/8" front bar, gives us a slight terminal understeer condition at the limit, but..below that the car is totally drivable with the throttle. And never forget....WHAT IS YOUR DRIVING STYLE?

Personally, as the speed gets up there, I have never found a oversteering car very fun to drive. At the slalom, or other controlled area, fine. But, in our real world of canyon runs, scenic tours, bumps, gravel on corners, yada, yada., you kinda need that thing to not want to come around on you, should you have to get out of the throttle, on the brakes, in a corner, blah, blah. Again, get the car reasonably balanced, with the throttle to control the over/understeer tendancy, and you will have a fun package, that will keep you safe.

With todays adjustable shocks, not that the valving is perfect, you can at least run the thing at a reasonabale ride, and try to use the spring rates to control the handling aspects, plus tire pressure, plus wheel spacing, can all fine tune things.

All things considered, my car does not really ride that harsh, at least according to some of my passengers, but then I have lived with the things for 30 years in this mode. I actually have my GTS set up the same as the Datsun, and as it is a heavier car, could actually be a tad stiffer in the spring/ant-roll department. If you are the type of driver that really toss'es a car in, this requires that the aforementioned spring/anti-roll bars/camber, etc, become even more important, as the instantaneous g-load can really ramp up there. I measured my 510 once at almost 2 g's on a quick toss in.

I to cannot comment on the rear springs, as wheel rate needs to be figured. You are on the right track, for you, and, as you have already seen, there is no one magic setup for all conditions. It is all about comprimise, you just have to figure out which one you want to sacrifice, for the type of driving you want to do the most.

Hope that may help some.

EDIT: as i thought about this some more, what we are talking about here is the spring frequency, which is what we feel in our seat of the pants. A soft spring has a low frequency, so we just wallow along. As the spring rate goes up, that frequency goes up, so we end up with a ride that feels "jerkier". That is the trade off, for both better roll control, and weight transfer under braking. When I thought back to my earlier days of experimenting with springs and shocks, ride quality became secondary to roll control. No brainer there, but, with our 510's, as most of us have found, we have needed to run quite STIFF, so as to minimze the rear toe change, which is the worst of the handling quirks. In using shocks built for heavier cars, we do have to be careful that it's bump /rebound rate and the speed with which it can react, is close to the stiffer spring rates we use. Other wise, it will just plain be too harsh for our needs, unless we are really pushing the cars suspension.

I know in the case of my GTS, I really went for the stiffest antiroll bar I could get, and just upped the spring/shock rate a reasonable amount. I went with 300# springs up front, and Tokico adjustables. I can soften the shocks up for rain and snow conditions. I live in this thing everyday, it needs to be compliant in rainy conditions ( and snow). The rear I left maybe a tad too soft, but, that solid axel and four link I neeed to be ok on some gravel roads that I go on. Again, a comprimise.
Last edited by bertvorgon on 28 Jul 2009 19:31, edited 6 times in total.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

User avatar
heirfaus
Posts: 2173
Joined: 30 Jan 2005 23:30
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Suspension Setups

Post by heirfaus » 27 Jul 2009 23:05

I knew you'd get me thinking. Well to start off the bridge I described a few posts ago isn't a straight bridge. You guys were probably thinking I was crazy worried about a worn bridge straight across the river. The is the Marcum bridge for you Portlanders. Some pretty good gradient (meaning angle right?) change and at 65-70 mph some pretty intense corners. The banking changes in the turn and there is a shallow 's' as you come down one side. I crossed the bridge on my way home tonight at about 65 and it takes A LOT of focus with the other cars around you doing 50-55. I'm not stupid and don't push it too far. I wish I had a video camera to tape going across at the speed I do and it would make better sense. Coming off the bridge, through the very shallow 's' at the end I was up to 85 (no real place for cops) and hit a dip and it just felt weird. Not sure how do describe it. I also felt like I was going to take of into orbit after the bounce...maybe.
bertvorgon wrote:The other thing to not forget, as we all throw money at all this trick suspension stuff, is how hard are you using the car?! If you are just farting around, you may find the ride is going to feel stiff, with all the stuff you have bought, from reading this site....And never forget....WHAT IS YOUR DRIVING STYLE?
Kieth, I know you always preach "what's your driving style" well I'll tell you...It's AGGRESSIVE. Not impolite to other drivers but I beat that car every chance I get and on the freeway, when beating it, it's usually at speeds around 70-85 mph. And I get bored doing 85 in the straights, that's where I go 55 and them I spot a corner, or the marcum bridge, and IT'S ON!! So with that info maybe it helps classify my questions at least a little more.

I also want to add that the way the car is now(with rear shocks on 1 or 2) I don't ever remember feeling like a tire hops or skips. It also leans very little in the corners at 70 MPH. Also I have learned to steer with the throttle. Actually this is how I work the Marcum bridge. Between the speed+corners+tire grooves in cement+traffic I can't really afford to use the wheel too much, so I give it gas to make a wider turn and let off to tighten the corner up. This is what you are talking about when say "steer with your throttle" right? So does this mean that the car is fairly well set up then? Or does that have nothing to do with being set up?

Another question if the shock is too stiff then possibly the spring is not allowed to compress as it should?
bertvorgon wrote:Suspension "stiffness", should not be confused with lack of CONTROLLED suspension travel
And I'm not confusing the two, I just feel that there has to be a level of stiffness that it starts to deteriorate your control of the car right? I am wondering whether that is what I am feeling....
bertvorgon wrote:With todays adjustable shocks, not that the valving is perfect, you can at least run the thing at a reasonabale ride, and try to use the spring rates to control the handling aspects,... In using shocks built for heavier cars, we do have to be careful that it's bump /rebound rate and the speed with which it can react, is close to the stiffer spring rates we use
So are you saying with my 'muscle car' shocks I can run my shocks at 1 or 2 and increase the springs to 200 to get a more controlled, less jolting feeling and less rear toe change?

Again I just want to state I am not taking anyones advise as absolute, so don't hold back on the info for fear I will hold you to some pointed decision I make about my car....
"An intercooler...has never been, nor should ever be, considered icing on the cake. A proper intercooler is more cake."
Corky Bell, Maximum Boost

"one of the little things that add up"
-defdes

User avatar
bertvorgon
Supporter
Posts: 10438
Joined: 04 Aug 2003 20:45
Location: White Rock, B.C. Canada

Re: Suspension Setups

Post by bertvorgon » 28 Jul 2009 05:57

The first part of your statement causes me some concern......

Any time a car "feels" like it is going to take off, makes me wonder if you bottomed the suspension?????..maybe just touched the shock bump rubber???? That is one thing to check for sure. You may not even hear it, or feel any THUNK, but, it just might have touched, which makes the car almost, specially the real feel like it is going to pitch UP quite dramatically.

I have lived this one! Just something to check at any rate. At 85 MPH, and in a good bump/dip, that gets the enertia going enough to eat up lots of travel, more than you might suspect.

There is a point, depending on spring rate, and some types of bumps, that you hit both under load, and in a corner, that may feel like the car is pitching back up. This is just one of the things that you have to live with....given the ability of the shock to be able to control things on REBOUND...specially on the rear. The stiffer spring that we put in, as it compresses down under a severe bump, and on the LOADED side of the car, has a lot of energy stored there, and it wants to "Spring" back very fast. Who knows what the Mustang shock's rebound rate is. If it is on the faster side, it may make the car feel like it is pitching up.

Yah, I think you have the "steering with the throttle concept"...it is all about being SMOOTH! Period. Sounds like that is exactly what is required....you can lift (in varying degrees), to get the rear to come out a tad, then feed power on again, without hardly putting any steering input in!

PREACHY, EH!...I thought I was just trying to keep you guys SAFE! :wink:

In the extreme, which is what I preach about, is that in our 510's, you want to be able to even snap right out of the throttle...in a corner...with a late apex in mind, that will get the weight transfer to the front,,,instantly..which gets the rear helping to rotate the car.....WITHOUT THE THING EVEN THINKING ABOUT TRAILING THROTTLE OVERSTEER! I do this quite a bit in my car, just at the speed you have been at. It gets the front to bite even harder, for turn in, then as soon as the rear gets the car rotated, your back on the power, transfering the weight to the back. Do this in a nice smooth fashion, and the twistys just become so much fun, and safe.


Sure, there is a point where stiffness would comprimise the handling of the car...if the suspension is NOT doing it;s thing, IE absorbing all the road irregularities..it just becomes a go cart at that point. Yes, if the shock is too stiff on rebound, that causes weight-jacking...the suspension will compress INTO the bump ok, but, upon EXIT, it will pick the whole rear end up, as the shock kept the spring from rebounding ok. It can be a subtle thing to, as the car may have hit small bumps progressively, thus jacking the rear down, then you hit the BIG one, and it feels like it may be pulling the wheel off the ground...which it is.

You are at the point now, of fine tuning how YOUR car feels to you, for your style, given that you have enough travel .

Not sure what to say about changing the spring yet. Play around with what shock settings you have, and again..bloddy make sure you are not hitting the bump rubbers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Preachy...yes on this one. Crashed my car because of this in 1978..ouch. :cry:
Last edited by bertvorgon on 28 Jul 2009 19:15, edited 2 times in total.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

User avatar
heirfaus
Posts: 2173
Joined: 30 Jan 2005 23:30
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Suspension Setups

Post by heirfaus » 28 Jul 2009 14:00

Alright Kieth !!

I just needed someone to help me walk through the thought process and you are helping tremendously!!! BTW I come from a religious background where 'preachers' are looked up to :D not to be confused with someone on a soap box :wink:

So your last post made me think of two things.

One, you might be correct about the suspension travel. I have the rear end lowered pretty low and I looked this morning (without a flashlight) and couldn't really see how much of the shaft is exposed but it didn't look promising. So I will have to remove the spring and check it later. Another possible point of contact I was thinking about was the tire/innerfender. I can stand on my bumper and jump up and down and the tire never hits, but a dip at 85 is a lot more force than my 135 lb body can create. I checked my tires and there were no marks on the rear, but that doesn't mean a bump in the future won't jam the tire up there. If you remember, Luke beat the piss out of my inner fender wall to get those tires to fit. So I am very fortunate that the tire didn't go too far up and hit the inner fender on that bump (I imagine that would be very scary). That's another thing I need to check when I take the spring out. BTW, there is NO rubber bumper on the stop!! I don't think I can add one. I'm pretty sure that Jordan sells them with the top welded on, but I will have to double check.

Second I just added the helper spring so that my spring would stop unseating entering driveways. I didn't check this preinstall. I am wonder if the aluminum spring coupler and the aluminum top hat are contacting under normal conditions when the helper is fully compressed (almost all the time). What effects would this have on handling?

Also I drove 5 blocks from home this morning on the way to school and decided to turn the shock down to 2 and got on the freeway. I think when I turned it from 1 to 3 it was a drastic change in right quality on the street and I was a little shocked :lol: (no pun intended :roll: ). Now going down to 2 I noticed the car was much more spongy on the freeway and I felt slightly less confident with the car, so maybe I should turn it up one click at a time and drive it for a week on each number to get past the initial shock of change in ride and really get a good assessment of the change.

Also, am I understanding jacking so that multiple bumps compress the shock and the rebound setting of the shock is too harsh not allowing it to, well, rebound, thus all of the compressed energy tries to go back up lifting the tires off the ground?
"An intercooler...has never been, nor should ever be, considered icing on the cake. A proper intercooler is more cake."
Corky Bell, Maximum Boost

"one of the little things that add up"
-defdes

User avatar
bertvorgon
Supporter
Posts: 10438
Joined: 04 Aug 2003 20:45
Location: White Rock, B.C. Canada

Re: Suspension Setups

Post by bertvorgon » 28 Jul 2009 15:57

it sounds like that may be the problem, worth ABSOLUTLEY eliminating any chance of that! Bottoming is one of the most dangerous conditions your suspension can throw at you, usually at the most dramatic times too.

I think I have told this story before....I was at Westwood race track, 1978, when I came up out of the hairpin, when, I was halfway through the s's, when I hit the BUMP. As it turned out, after forensic analysis, I had blown through the travel, and hit the stock bump rubber on the rear control arm. This sudden loss of compliance, coupled with the turning input, caused me to spin out, into the tire wall, all at 80+ MPH. I was lucky, as it took all the energy and dissapated it pretty good. It took us awhile to figure out what had happened of course.

I had tried a bunch of shocks, one of which was, at the time, to die for KONI'S. They were very bad for letting the car jack DOWN. They were one of the worst I ever tried, at least in the context of the time period, 70's and 80's.

When you have a shock out, try pulling it out fast. As the rebound rate goes up, of course this gets harder to do. So, imagine you hit a compression bump, which knocks the shock in 1", and then it only rebounds 1/2" before you hit the next bump(or transient toss) and you drive the shock in another 1", and again it only comes out another 1/2". the net effect, is that the travel is reduced each time, and at some point, on the next toss, the shock is so far in, that when the car is tossed in the next direction, it pulls the wheel off, or it just gets really light. so, yes you got it right. Just watch a 510 at the slalom with this probem, very evil handling car at that point.

what you are entertaining to do, is the best in my opinion, start with the softest setting, then, work up to the point that ...well....what does it feel like? that is exactly the best way, as you want it as soft (relativly speaking, as you can get away with, but, not have any wallowing or pitching ( which is a bit of a function of the front/rear spring frequency) but, you get the idea. I have actually tuned my mountain bike the same way, with those wonderful Fox fork and shock. The new fork I have, has a small bump sensitivity adjustment, which I have found quite amazing when you think of it. I could really drive myself crazy if I had this on my car.

I hope I have made sense of all of this for you all. The complete suspension package, on any of our 510's, is a sum of the parts we have chosen. There is no perfect setup, for all conditions. We must either strike a balance, depending on our total driving window, or, sacrifice something, ride qualty, whatever, to excell in one area. Due to my racing, I have chosen ultimate cornering and CONTROL, above all else. The steering is quite heavy (at low speed) due to the castor, but, at high speed, and in fast, tight corners, it is a dream of predicatability, same with the rear. Is that not what a good suspension is all about, predictabilty, in most, if not all situations, that also keeps our 510's nice and shiny. I still have that pictures of that poor young fellow in Australia, with his blue 510 wrapped around that tree. Not that that cannot happen to any of us when we drive hard out there, but, we sure want to balance the odds in our favour. I would bet my boots that he got bit by either trailing throttle oversteer, and/or lack of experience. Bad combo.
Last edited by bertvorgon on 28 Jul 2009 19:35, edited 2 times in total.
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

User avatar
Baz
Posts: 514
Joined: 13 Jul 2004 07:34
Location: Lonsdale South OZ

Re: Suspension Setups

Post by Baz » 28 Jul 2009 18:28

Hi Keith,
I must say that I enjoy all your comments on suspension & handling. Your tarmac race experience far exceeds
mine.
Im a rally guy and used to setting suspensions to take the hard bumps & remain in contact with a loose surface.
This approach with lowered suspensions works well for high performance street /road use where road conditions vary markedly.
I have to agree with all your points, especially the reference to the 50/50 rate of the shocks.
This is the hard part, finding a shock that meets these parameters.
The mustang, camaro shocks dont do it for me. too soft on compression & jack down on rebound.

There a quite a few specialty shocks around that will do the job,the price is out off reach for most of us.
front end wise we have found the KYB excel G (OZ spec, jap manufactured #365056) Z31 insert with 215mm x 230lb
spring works very well in most conditions. This spring utilises high tensile 10mm wire 8 coils , so has good travel.
We also use a urethane progressive bump stop which comes into play on high G corners & extreme bumps. The energy release of the bump stop is no where near as vicious as the solid rubber.The Z31 insert controls the rebound perfectly with no tendency to launch the front end.
Rear end with out coil overs we use a 700 lb high tensile spring with KYB mono gas shocks,(#KG4776) these shocks have a static pressure of around 60Lbs, increasing on compression.
The valving of these shocks is superb, smooth ride at normal road speeds on average suburban type roads.
Yet ramp up rapidly for transient responce. the std trimmed bump stops rarely come into play, tho we aussies tend to have a slightly higher ride height at the rear than you guys on the other side of the pond.
We have found that the rear needs to be a tad higher than the front to maintain stability at speeds approaching 140
150 MPH. Also the launch from start (SR powered) needs a bit of compliance to get full traction.
A street SR powered 510 coupe with only 295 RWHP (mild by Oz stds) has managed a quarter mile time of 11.2
with this rear setup.
we are experimenting with a progressive rate urethan rear bump stop.
will report when we have tested these.
My respects to you Keith.
cheers

User avatar
bertvorgon
Supporter
Posts: 10438
Joined: 04 Aug 2003 20:45
Location: White Rock, B.C. Canada

Re: Suspension Setups

Post by bertvorgon » 28 Jul 2009 19:13

Thanks Baz, that means a lot to me, you build some mean stuff down there, so I know you know your stuff.

we to have found a tad of rake works for our 510's too, and as my car can reach 140 MPH, with both the castor and rake, makes for very good stability at those speeds. We really learned that in our road race years. That big cow catcher on my car makes for some good negative under the front also.

we had discussed before, the best rate is in that 50/50 zone, for very good weight transfer, for acceleration.

I really learned this from my solo years, which of course involved starting from zero, just like a 1/4 mile start. We had a math whizz/Solo champion here, once determine, that most Solo race's where won or lost in the first few feet of a Solo. I took that to heart, and developed my car to both launch very hard, but with minimal wheel spin...it's all about going forward...not smok'in the tires!
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague wish for something salty" - Peter Egan

Keith Law
1973 2Door Slalom/hill climb/road race / canyon carver /Giant Killer 510
1968 Vintage 3HP Mini Bike
1971 Vintage 13' BOLER trailer

User avatar
sexyL
Posts: 380
Joined: 04 Oct 2007 20:24
Location: 98203

Re: Suspension Setups

Post by sexyL » 28 Jun 2010 20:36

Has anyone tried the 4lug 300zx front suspension swap? Looks similar but could just be a hair off.
Also same question with the '87 200sx. Take a look at these photos:
Image
Image
Those are the 200sx. I can't say for sure, but the calipers look a little smaller than the 280zx ones. But the rotors are vented!! I think you're supposed to use the early 80s 200sx struts which are not vented, correct? So is it that no one has tried these 1987 struts or they are known to not fit?
When comparing these '87 struts to my non-vented 200sx struts, I can see that the caliper is mounted with a bolt threading into the caliper itself, whereas the non-vented set I have has threads on the strut (where the caliper mounts to). Maybe these are the V6 brakes? But the car was a NAPS Z.

Also, these are 300zx struts, I don't know what year but they are 4lug, and look very similar to 280zx.
Image
Do those not fit the 510 either?

User avatar
okayfine
Supporter
Posts: 14136
Joined: 12 Nov 2007 23:02
Location: Newbury Park, CA

Re: Suspension Setups

Post by okayfine » 29 Jun 2010 07:11

sexyL wrote:Also, these are 300zx struts, I don't know what year but they are 4lug, and look very similar to 280zx.
Do those not fit the 510 either?
Z31 hubs fit the 280ZX spindles and restore track width to ~510 specs. You could bring the rotors over with the hubs as well if you wanted 11" rotors. Either way you'd be making a caliper adapter.

I believe the later 200SX stuff have a different-sized balljoint recess, so that could also be the same for the Z31 bits. I haven't heard of people using the complete Z31 strut, but I haven't heard of it not fitting, either.
Because when you spend a silly amount of money on a silly, trivial thing that will help you not one jot, you are demonstrating that you have a soul and a heart and that you are the sort of person who has no time for Which? magazine. – Jeremy Clarkson

User avatar
hang_510
Supporter
Posts: 5342
Joined: 14 Mar 2005 16:19
Location: so. cal

Re: Suspension Setups

Post by hang_510 » 29 Jun 2010 09:54

talking w/QA1 regarding the 'clunk', most w/R swaybars do not experience it.
i dont/wont have one, so... hopefully it wont be that loud 8)
so far only angled driveway entries are where i hear it.
bertvorgon wrote:In the extreme, which is what I preach about, is that in our 510's, you want to be able to even snap right out of the throttle...in a corner...with a late apex in mind, that will get the weight transfer to the front,,,instantly..which gets the rear helping to rotate the car.....WITHOUT THE THING EVEN THINKING ABOUT TRAILING THROTTLE OVERSTEER! I do this quite a bit in my car,
^this is why we all ask you the same ??? :!:
i have the same 'aggressive' approach in the cyns :twisted:
okayfine wrote:Taking into account the affects of your shock valving is another matter, however. The Tokicos up front probably aren't valved the same as the QA1s in the back. As the QA1s are, in effect, stiffer....
well since this is now what i have, ill have to update after fine tuning. :mrgreen:
unknow up front 300# at least, and now 300# in the R

the addition was worth every penny so far! ~30 min to install (less if i didnt have to remove the 1/2 shafts) and made a huge differance.

only test drive was where your(okayfine) video started :wink: and ended at the rock store w/the R on 1 and the F on 2.
too soft for more than a pleasant lo-flyin cruise, but clicking the tokicos to 5 has proven to be enough of a change.

no skipping/bumping/ or other unpleasant ride events, even on the crappy freeways here, at 6500 rpm in 4th gear

ill be able to get a better/longer run after the carbs are dialed in :twisted:
byron wrote:I'd be all over that like a fat kid on a smartie.
okayfine wrote:Sense doesn't always have everything to do with it, and I speak from experience.

User avatar
sexyL
Posts: 380
Joined: 04 Oct 2007 20:24
Location: 98203

Re: Suspension Setups

Post by sexyL » 01 Jul 2010 01:06

okayfine wrote:
sexyL wrote:Also, these are 300zx struts, I don't know what year but they are 4lug, and look very similar to 280zx.
Do those not fit the 510 either?
Z31 hubs fit the 280ZX spindles and restore track width to ~510 specs. You could bring the rotors over with the hubs as well if you wanted 11" rotors. Either way you'd be making a caliper adapter.

I believe the later 200SX stuff have a different-sized balljoint recess, so that could also be the same for the Z31 bits. I haven't heard of people using the complete Z31 strut, but I haven't heard of it not fitting, either.
Alright so back to the struts... the 200sx bolt pattern matches--or at least looks really close--to the stock 510 pattern. -But you're right about the ball-joint recess--it's more shallow than the 510 strut but I'll see by how much. But even if it didn't fit, couldn't bump steer spacers fix that?

Anyway, the 4lug 300zx won't work. The bolts are too far apart. Sucks, those brakes looked huge!

User avatar
thisismatt
Supporter
Posts: 3438
Joined: 22 Jul 2006 18:12
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Contact:

Re: Suspension Setups

Post by thisismatt » 01 Jul 2010 05:57

sexyL wrote:
okayfine wrote:
sexyL wrote:Also, these are 300zx struts, I don't know what year but they are 4lug, and look very similar to 280zx.
Do those not fit the 510 either?
Z31 hubs fit the 280ZX spindles and restore track width to ~510 specs. You could bring the rotors over with the hubs as well if you wanted 11" rotors. Either way you'd be making a caliper adapter.

I believe the later 200SX stuff have a different-sized balljoint recess, so that could also be the same for the Z31 bits. I haven't heard of people using the complete Z31 strut, but I haven't heard of it not fitting, either.
Alright so back to the struts... the 200sx bolt pattern matches--or at least looks really close--to the stock 510 pattern. -But you're right about the ball-joint recess--it's more shallow than the 510 strut but I'll see by how much. But even if it didn't fit, couldn't bump steer spacers fix that?

Anyway, the 4lug 300zx won't work. The bolts are too far apart. Sucks, those brakes looked huge!
200sx bolt pattern at the steering knuckle is the same, but the hole for the steering knuckle boss is larger, so a bump steer spacer or adapter ring with appropriate sizes should be used to adapt the sizes in order to maintain the sheer strength. Coorect, 300zx strut bolt pattern does not match 510/200sx - it's wider/farther apart. A lot of people, like myself, have 200sx struts - so it has been done - both the 4 lug and the 5 lug versions.
I'm your huckleberry.

User avatar
sexyL
Posts: 380
Joined: 04 Oct 2007 20:24
Location: 98203

Re: Suspension Setups

Post by sexyL » 01 Jul 2010 12:49

One thing I was wondering was if the '87 steering knuckle would work in the 510 for even more quick steering? I ask because it looks even shorter than the 280zx, but also has the property of being almost completely flat (horizontally)
Image
Image

I would have taken them but I didn't have my pickle fork with me at the time.

User avatar
PoorMtnKid
Supporter
Posts: 1201
Joined: 28 Aug 2010 14:43
Location: Las Vegas NV

Re: Suspension Setups

Post by PoorMtnKid » 09 Oct 2010 14:38

So its sat at work and its slow. I read pretty much every post on every page looking for an answer to a questions that I seen a few people ask. What spring rate should be used in the front if you planning on a KA/SR swap in the future.

Or for the people who do have a swap with one of these motors..... what are you currently running? Do you think a higher spring rate would be better to compensate for the weight of the new motor?

My goal is to eventually swap im an SR in the future, so I'm prepearing for it now with 280zx breaks and I'm going to use the gorund control coil overs but am unsure of the spring rate I would like to use. I'm mostly going to use the car for drives to and from work in the winter time and for weekends when I go to the disc golf course. I would like something with a little cush. Any input?
looking for pass. side arm rest

User avatar
dislexicdime
Posts: 652
Joined: 09 Aug 2004 18:26
Location: tigard oregon

Re: Suspension Setups

Post by dislexicdime » 09 Oct 2010 17:53

i have seen a lot of guys around here run 225 to 250 pound coil overs. I have 350 in the front with 250 pound coil overs in the rear on my car now but the 350's are to stiff when you get up in the higher spring rates the more you need r compound tires.
L series only have one header!

i need another garage mine is full of part's

Post Reply